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Post by ohgodsnakes on May 19, 2017 9:09:38 GMT -5
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Post by ohgodsnakes on May 19, 2017 9:15:10 GMT -5
Reaper Chainsword (The knight CCW) now has a flat 6 damage. No roll. If you wound with it, take 6 wounds off your dude. A nice peak at how ex-D weapons will be handled. Of course with the new system, each D weapon can have its own statline and shenanigans, so we should see some variety.
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Post by voodoo on May 19, 2017 9:29:07 GMT -5
I'm hoping the D3 wounds per is how all force weapons will work.
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Post by voodoo on May 19, 2017 11:24:28 GMT -5
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Post by voodoo on May 19, 2017 11:25:28 GMT -5
There's the superheavy detachment "everyone" was looking for.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 19, 2017 11:55:50 GMT -5
ughhh 24 wounds with a 3+/5++ at T8 eh.... so MORE survivable than they used to be? you know because the equivalent wounds/T/save of four (current) wraithknights is so easy to deal with... sorry GW... this is the first reveal where I've gone WTF are you thinking?  a full knight army is 120 T8 wounds with a 3+ save. |
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Post by nekekami on May 19, 2017 12:01:05 GMT -5
...and I'm selling one suuuuper cheap.
Just saying.
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Post by voodoo on May 19, 2017 12:05:38 GMT -5
If I didn't have 9 to finish I'd take you up on it too!
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Post by godsproxy on May 19, 2017 12:06:03 GMT -5
...and I'm selling one suuuuper cheap. Just saying. I want it so bad but orkz... Im not hyped about the nights. They have so much utility and out while being super survivable. I am going to reserve some judgment but this just seems a bit much. |
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Post by ohgodsnakes on May 19, 2017 12:13:37 GMT -5
ughhh 24 wounds with a 3+/5++ at T8 eh.... so MORE survivable than they used to be? you know because the equivalent wounds/T/save of four (current) wraithknights is so easy to deal with... sorry GW... this is the first reveal where I've gone WTF are you thinking? a full knight army is 120 T8 wounds with a 3+ save. It would be a tough nut to crack in the current edition, but I think we'll be fine in the next. Remember, mortal wounds, force weapons, and things that cause d3 or d6 wounds per hit have already been revealed. The battlecannon is heavy D6, and each unsaved hit causes D3 damage. The knight would only get a 5+ against one. Imagine three of them firing! I don't think they would have a problem bringing it down in 1-2 turns, which is more than they can do right now. They also mentioned using stratagems wisely, so rerolling that devistator squad's lascannon hits could make a huge difference. *Edit* It also looks like there is no FNP, which takes away a 3rd of the survivability of a wraithknight. It's just no use comparing survivability between the two editions. |
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Post by ohgodsnakes on May 19, 2017 12:15:13 GMT -5
Stand fast against speculation!
"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded"*
*except when thinking about the new edition of 40k
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 19, 2017 12:44:11 GMT -5
yeah... all that is true.... ....if you're marines  we shall see how it balances out of course, and every army might have tools to deal with this... doesn't help that everything they've released up to this point seemed reasonable and balanced. |
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Post by ohgodsnakes on May 19, 2017 13:08:33 GMT -5
Moving to a wounds mechanic has definitely helped out nids, as now a huge ass horde of gaunts can do something to it. I bet they'll bring in some rule like "Skittering Swarm" or something that gives you bonuses to hit or wound for larger squads, like AoS. Sure, they won't kill it on their own, but they're probably not worth nearly as many points. A couple carnifexes getting a charge off though, youch.
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Post by thesanityassassin on May 19, 2017 13:17:38 GMT -5
Honestly, I think I'm less concerned about it looking like that than before once you factor in the weapon stats.
For example, a Lascannon vs a Knight:
7th - Hit on 3+, Do 1 HP on a 4, 1-in-6 chance of doing D3 HP on a 5+. Knight saves on a 4++ assuming its shield is the right direction, which it has a very good chance of being if Lascannons are coming.
I'm not going to complete the math because math, but suffice to say half of your hits won't do damage, half of the ones that WOULD do damage would be saved, and doing more than 1 HP in a shot requires a couple of high rolls in a row.
8th - Hit on 3+, Wound on 3+, Knight has a 5+ save. Do D6 damage every time, with the seeming ability to use command points to affect that roll.
Now 2/3rds of your hits are going to do damage, only 1/3rd of those are going to be saved, and you're going to average 3.5 wounds dealt on every successful shot, whether you rolled a 3 to wound or a 6.
Now to be fair, you can theoretically kill a Knight with 2 Lascannons in 7th, and you'd need at least 4 in 8th, but I feel like it would ultimately require a similar-to-smaller amount of actual resource allocation to haul one down. Not to mention that it starts getting worse as you hurt it!
Hell, just the thought that you'll be doing SOME kind of damage rather than bouncing off of it futiley again and again feels like a win to me.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 19, 2017 14:23:02 GMT -5
well lascannons are certainly the most improved weapon we've seen... because now if you're trying to stop knights with them... well your chances aren't so hot.
And I might be totally wrong and they won't be difficult at all or be in a totally balanced state with the rest of the game. The issue with getting only small bits of information is this is really the first truly powerful unit we've seen... while we have to counter it the stats on a lascannon (say what you will about force weapons doing a D3 - you're still wounding on 5's or 6's and it still gets a save - plus you're in combat with something doing 6 wounds a hit on you plus whatever stomps do now - don't like my chances there thank you very much)
a horde of gaunts will stand about as much chance in 8th as they did in 7th - tarpit duties only! (they won't be putting actual wounds on it)
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