Deep striking in 8th and how to deal with it

[trantos01]

I've watched batreps of 7th and played 8th and I think we can all agree that units with the ability to deep strike (whatever their individual rule might be called) are much more dangerous now.  My question is, how can you deal with/minimize the damage they can do?  So far I've seen (and tried) two different tactics. 

First, have a screening force of cheap 'meatshield' units in front of your main battle line to eat the charge. Problem is the more screening forces you take, the less points you have for the valuable stuff.

The second is to position your army so that the DSers are limited in where they can land and attack from.  Of course this results in your army either being huddled in a corner ceding map control to the enemy, or being too spread out to effectively respond to an attack.

[Jack Shrapnel]

If you're facing a big deep striking army (you'll be able to easily tell at deployment!) protect yourself with their minimum range, deploy a backfield unit 9" from long and short table edge. Now that zone is covered and you don't have to worry about stuff dropping into your backfield.

deploy in layers to protect yourself from those charges, and limit how much people can take advantage of the deep striking rules.

ie: don't do what I did on Saturday facing blood angels. I was dumb!

[trantos01]

Jul 3, 2017 16:31:44 GMT -5 Jack Shrapnel said:

ie: don't do what I did on Saturday facing blood angels. I was dumb!

Don't feel bad.  I got mowed down by a Tyrgon Prime tunneling up to deliver a metric ton of genestealers into my warriors and a Tyrannocyte depositing a melee-specced Swarmlord who wanted to play.

And a word regarding melee-specced Swarmlords: Avoid melee combat with them At All Costs!
Well unless you got a couple of squads of thunder hammer/storm shield Termies with character support to pin him down while accepting ~80% losses.

To quote the WH community site:

"He is an absolute beast now, as he should be! With a Toughness value of 6, 12 Wounds, a 3+ save and a 5+ invulnerable save (increased to a 4+ invulnerable save in melee) he is not easily taken down.
This can be further enhanced by casting Catalyst on him (and did I mention he’s a potent Psyker, too?) to give him a 5+ save vs Wounds suffered.
But it’s not just defence, oh no, Mr. Swarmlord brings the pain in combat as well. With a base of 7 attacks at Strength 8, hitting on a 2+, with an AP value of -3 and D6 damage a pop, the Swarmlord can lay low even Titanic units in a single round of combat. Truly a fearsome adversary.
However, his ability that I have found to be most useful is Hive Commander, which allows a friendly unit to move in the Shooting phase. This is incredibly powerful for the sudden added mobility. For Hormagants, with their blisteringly quick Movement of 8″, this means a potential 16″ move before attempting a charge.
Or he could simply use it on himself and move up to 18"

[nekekami]

Simple answer: There is no right answer to this.

The game as a whole is a lot faster than it was. Everything moves faster, and 1st turn charges while rare in 7th, did exist. Now, everyone has a chance to get in on it. Yes, DS is a powerful option, but it always was, however now it's not just for shooting.

So, longer answer: It comes down to your preference, and army composition. 8th edition really is all about how you build an army, and on top of that, deployment is very, very important again. You have to deploy your units intelligently, based on what you're intending them to do, and so this goes back around to composition.

So maybe you castle up for deployment, because you have fast ways to move troops around the board. Monoliths can DS on their own, and then beam troops onto the field over the next few turns. Night Scythes the same, while being super fast, and hard to hit. Ghost Arks, likewise. Other armies have much similiar ways of doing this, and works really well for aggressive armies, or rather balanced ones, that can move your troops around after protecting big backfield units.

Maybe you string a cheap unit of scarabs across the front, or flanks of your armies. These don't have to be big units either, for two reasons: 1, is that they're supposed to die. 2, even if they die to shooting, they still pushed back the deep striking units enough that they shouldn't be able to assault anything, as long as you didn't fuck up, and butt other units up against them. To do this kind of thing, you have to be flexible, and mindful of what your opponent's things can do.

Yet another option, is to put a big, tanky, screening unit in front. I've done this with my Thunderwolves in a few games now, and it works wonders. You can also use vehicles like Ghost Arks. Lychguard, Wraiths, or even Flayed Ones might work. A big enough unit that wants to be stuck in might actually be enough of a deterrent that your opponent thinks better of it, and tries something else. Or they go for it, and while you might get the short end of it, being as combat is what it is, at least you got there.

There's other tricks too, like deploying flyers out front of your army. They tend to have a bigger footprint, which pushes DS units back further, and can't be assaulted by anything that doesn't also fly. It might not save you from things like Stormboys, or Jump Pack marines, but things like Genestealers, or Terminators? Again, be mindful of your opponent's limitations as much as their strengths. Counter, and take advantages wherever you can.

And lastly, you have to remember that you don't have to stay stuck in combat. If you don't want to be there, fall back with the screening unit. Open up that assault threat to your army's shooting, and counter assault.

8th edition 40k isn't a point-and-click wargame. Armies have to be smart, instead of relying on uncounterable strats anymore. This also means you must be smart in how you build, and play a force.


Edit: Also, that Tyranid strat is counterable. Ask Shannon.

[Jack Shrapnel]

yup... when the stealer bomb works, it's awesome... when it doesn't, the counter attack gets it

protip - sides... not middle swarmy... and no where near bjorn who is pants on head crazy!

[nekekami]

I'd say that Bjorn is just as crazy as Swarmy, but in the head-to-head, Bjorn is doing a whole lot more damage with the S12. Bad dice rolling aside, it's a pretty even fight, where the charging unit should come out on top.

That said, the Thunderwolf screen did it's job. The Hellblasters getting caught was my mistake, and the loss of their shooting for a round really had me wondering if I could finish them off, since I was counting on those plasma shots to really tip the scales in my favour. Regardless, it's a strat that certainly works.