Large clanrat units (how to play them?)

[donimator]

As a newly-minted Skaven player (and WFB, for that matter), I find myself with 80 clanrats and questions on the best way to field them. They are equally modelled between spears and hand weapons, but I am tempted NOT to field them as hordes. Here's what I am thinking, please let me know if I'm making sense:

• Rank bonus and keeping Steadfast are more important to Skaven then sheer number of attacks in one turn. A unit of 40 spears, for instance, is not likely to benefit from the 4th rank attacks for very long (if ever vs. a shooty army)
  
• I was thinking of fielding them in 7-wide ranks. Maximizes attacks against 5-wide units, keeps rank bonus a little longer, doesn't present quite an attractive flank.
  

[Jack Shrapnel]

I generally field my clanrats 30 strong... 5 wide and 6 ranks deep... I rarely find attacks do much with them (if I get one wound through I am happy!) and I'm really using them to pin something in place so I can hit them with a hammer unit in the flank (I see you run rat ogres... they would work excellent for this... pin with clanrats, send the ogres into the flank for the kills... that way you have the combination of ranks + steadfast, and some S5 hits from the ogres (who'll see less attacks back at them due to being on the flank )

you're absolutely right - ranks are everything with Skaven troops... for example, my slave unit is 50 models... 5 wide and 10 deep... they'll even pin swordsmasters for a while! (and who cares when they eventually die given they blow up and are super cheap!)

[stonecutter]

There are two roles for infantry in fantasy - tarpit and meat grinder.
From what I have seen thus far, only troops that can actually inflict damage (i.e. S4 or better) merit going into horde formation. As Jack Shrapnel has indicated, keeping the rank bonus is far more important for clan rats than a few extra WS3/S3 attacks. In fact, it is more important for skaven than for any other army due to the strength in numbers rule. Clan rats and slaves are the perfect tar pit to hold up elite enemy units until a hellpit, doomwheel and rat ogres can come smashing into the side. Based on this, I think the handweapon/shield option is best for the 6+ ward save but the spears can be useful when going against similar troops that you outnumber, at which point you can actually do some damage and an extra 7+ attacks can make a difference.

[donimator]

Been playing around with lists lately and came to wonder if it was worth putting a full command in clanrats. I'd rather just go with musician and standard bearer for their effects, but leave the champion out. Is it worth having one to 'challenge' an enemy character out of a round of combat? Would the ensuing overkill likely be worse than just letting an enemy char fight rank-and-file? One champion is the cost of three rats, which isn't much, but I feel I'm throwing points away. Is there a good reason I'm not seeing to throw Clawleaders in clanrat units?

[Jack Shrapnel]

I normally just pay the points for musician (for the reform) and standard

find champs rarely do anything useful whatsoever, and any killy character is just going to rack up the overkill combat res in a challenge.

[garrett]

I like 40 personnaly 5 wide 8 deep I find it efective.

I also do full command.