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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 22, 2017 12:50:41 GMT -5
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Post by LizardTau on Oct 22, 2017 12:54:56 GMT -5
That's huge. Now I wouldn't mind if they could be 50 man blobs any more. Lol
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Post by raceygaming on Oct 22, 2017 13:48:27 GMT -5
New changes looks good, they may have come down a little too hard on the commissar but its better. Think a good middle ground would be Execute to make half the number stay so that bug 30 man blobs can still be in the game but it still hurts when they lose 15 models.
Feel like there will be a lot of Tank guard which is cool but then again so are foot guard.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 22, 2017 16:12:15 GMT -5
you can still do it with one blob for draconian discipline warlord trait - however instead of just losing one to morale you'd lose 2+D3 - which is still nothing if it's a huge group
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Post by raceygaming on Oct 22, 2017 19:10:45 GMT -5
ya i missed the warlord trait.
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Post by voodoo on Oct 22, 2017 20:29:54 GMT -5
True but you won't end up with a wild west gunslinger commissar in a circle of dead bodies from 8 different blobs of conscripts.
He can only keep so many guys in line at a time.
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Post by cmcd on Oct 22, 2017 23:34:16 GMT -5
... Feel like there will be a lot of Tank guard which is cool but then again so are foot guard. I disagree. They Nerfed tanks. Unless I am missing something. All the cheeky things you can do are now slimmed down. If I use ambush Stratagem and take one unit of 3 Leman russes, why are they preventing me from taking 3 units of 1 Leman Russ. I suspect they are trying to prevent people from ambushing with 3 units of 3 leman russ's but the points you need in order to have 9 units in reserve is ridiculous. The Take Cover stragem could before be used on vehicles. Now they cant. Vehicles are already having a hard time with no cover. I am happy they fixed the Ogrynn Loop that just made my head hurt. I am not very familiar with the other types of Leman Russ's (Forge world) For the most part I feel that they worked out the kinks for the codex. Got a few more tricks i can try out. |
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Post by LizardTau on Oct 23, 2017 4:39:34 GMT -5
I think it's more the fact russes can move up to half their movement and fire their main gun twice. Expecially since there is a piece of gear to make it so their movement doesn't degrade.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 23, 2017 6:06:23 GMT -5
double shooting russes that can sneaky outflank... that's why you can only do one squad because that's crazy.
the commissar nerf was necessary as it was one of the reasons why AM was being referred to as the one outlier codex that was over the top compared to the rest. AM is still top dog, the conscript trick (which was stupid and completely anti-fluff) was about as dumb as the poxwalker trick that I'm sure will be stopped within the next short while as well (purchase smartly people). GW is giving out really solid codex to everyone, but they're stomping hard on all the loophole tricks as soon as they start dominating because people start complaining and GW is listening.
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Post by raceygaming on Oct 23, 2017 6:23:56 GMT -5
... Feel like there will be a lot of Tank guard which is cool but then again so are foot guard. I disagree. They Nerfed tanks. Unless I am missing something. All the cheeky things you can do are now slimmed down. If I use ambush Stratagem and take one unit of 3 Leman russes, why are they preventing me from taking 3 units of 1 Leman Russ. I suspect they are trying to prevent people from ambushing with 3 units of 3 leman russ's but the points you need in order to have 9 units in reserve is ridiculous. The Take Cover stragem could before be used on vehicles. Now they cant. Vehicles are already having a hard time with no cover. I am happy they fixed the Ogrynn Loop that just made my head hurt. I am not very familiar with the other types of Leman Russ's (Forge world) For the most part I feel that they worked out the kinks for the codex. Got a few more tricks i can try out. I guess I was more focused on the double shooting and the double the wounds to see what damage chart they are on. having to drop a russ to 3 wounds to affect its shooting sounds rough. I have to admit I dont get the unit of 3 vs 3 units of one since they all split fire anyway? tho I guess it does force them to stay together so there is less positioning advantage. As for the take cover/ cover for tanks, I feel like thats a general issue that needs to be dealt with, the wording in the books more or less stops all non infantary from gaining cover which feels bad to players since then tank positioning feels pointless. |
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Post by voodoo on Oct 23, 2017 6:38:19 GMT -5
I feel like thats a general issue that needs to be dealt with, the wording in the books more or less stops all non infantary from gaining cover which feels bad to players since then tank positioning feels pointless. Tank positioning has been useless since they became able to shoot like a Monstrous Creature from 7th Ed. I still find myself thinking about fire arcs on my flyers even though there’s no need to. Do tanks need something? Likely; but I’ll be damned if I know what it is that can “fix” them. I admittedly don’t play enough to have that answer. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 23, 2017 6:57:42 GMT -5
As for the take cover/ cover for tanks, I feel like thats a general issue that needs to be dealt with, the wording in the books more or less stops all non infantary from gaining cover which feels bad to players since then tank positioning feels pointless. rules for woods and ruins terrain say that units other than infantry have to be 50% obscured form the position of the firing model. You CAN grab cover for vehicles, but basically make them stationary to do so and from certain angles they wouldn't be at all much of the time. otherwise they have to utilize LOS blocking terrain to hide. Kind of realistic when you think about it (it's difficult to hide a tank!) it's much harder to do but vehicles are WAY tougher than they were previously. Can't one shot anything anymore, not even a rhino. Yeah, I still lost a spartan turn one, but it took a crapton of shooting and my dice hated me even more than normal. (which is saying something). Normally I find vehicles get to do their job now. We don't have the unkillable rhinos of 5th or the one-shot-dead land raiders of 6th/7th. how many guard tanks did you see even considered for tourney play in the previous two editions??? Leafblower was a thing in 5th, but since then they haven't really been good other than pask. |
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Post by cmcd on Oct 23, 2017 17:52:54 GMT -5
No I support that Tanks are better now in this edition. But Leman Russes got a down grade after this FAQ came out. That is my point.
They're super good, and Tank guards are mandatory for 10 points. Meaning they always fire there main weapon twice after moving a max of 4.99" regardless of BS.
With Regards to cover. I think the issue I have is that a vehicle has to be Wholly within cover and be 50%. If I have a tank that is 99% obscured from your point of view but is crossing an open part of the table. It gets no cover save.
None of this though is going to stop my from bringing tanks. Just going to have to be more precise with positioning.
I am going to put up a battle report later. but in the game i used the outflank leman russ's (Played before FAQ came out). I ran 3 Tank Commanders With Demolisher cannons and 3x Heavy Flamers. The Flamers did more damage than the Demolisher cannons even though they fired twice. (I used the Tallarn Tank Order to move them up to hit with their flamers. ) Having a main gun fire twice via out flank is no different than if they were on the table. the minimum gun range for a Leman Russ is 28.99" (Demolisher / Punisher) So Its still deadly on the table. The Leman Russ's still died to Las Cannon fire. They only have a 6+ save.
With the new rules for AMBUSH you can take 3 Leman Russ's but they can't issue orders. and they count as moving there full distance when they are deployed. ( I think of an ambush not as outflank but under a pile of rubble.
or disguised. ect. ) so the same unit as 1 could not fire their Heavy flamers and only fire one round with there Demolisher cannon. I wont be flanking tanks anytime soon. well. not leman russ's anyways.
Ill be the first to admit the manuover is OP. But i had to try it to see how OP it was. I am happy they downgraded it. But. I am annoyed that there is no difference between 1 unit of 3 and 3 units of 1 THat part does not make sense. and you cant take commanders in that way. it has to be standard Leman Russ's
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Post by raceygaming on Oct 23, 2017 20:10:51 GMT -5
Im following you on this. I too was super confused on the cover rule too. I was like oh Im 50% obsecured so im a +1 and it was pointed out to me that it was 50% and IN terrian.
There are maybe 10-12 pieces of terrian at nexus that would meet this requirement, without house ruling that all "woods" are X inches all and thick.
I mean I'm cool just throwing tanks up the board now that I know how it works but it does feel silly that other than full LoS blocking pieces there isnt really much interaction in terrian and tanks.
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Post by cmcd on Oct 23, 2017 21:38:12 GMT -5
Im following you on this. I too was super confused on the cover rule too. I was like oh Im 50% obsecured so im a +1 and it was pointed out to me that it was 50% and IN terrian. There are maybe 10-12 pieces of terrian at nexus that would meet this requirement, without house ruling that all "woods" are X inches all and thick. I mean I'm cool just throwing tanks up the board now that I know how it works but it does feel silly that other than full LoS blocking pieces there isnt really much interaction in terrian and tanks. Yeah , the issue that makes it even more annoying is that even if 1mm of the firers hull has line of sight to your vehicle, they still have line of sight and no cover. But now I am ranting. SO i am going to stop. This is off topic but kinda on topic. Just a Note for everyone. If you have two races in your army ie a Astra militarium Battalion, and a Space Marine Battalion. You can only use a relic if it is from the race of your Warlord. |
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