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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 2, 2018 20:01:35 GMT -5
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jun 4, 2018 8:36:45 GMT -5
Really hoping the Battle of Pelennor Fields might be a rehash of War of the Ring. It was such a solid system that got washed away because of the bad opinion of LotR gaming at the time.
Re-released as GW's only rank and file game, with solid skirmish rules behind it, it could really take off if supported well...
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 4, 2018 10:49:29 GMT -5
My Ork wish list:
1. Ghazghkull Thraka to near primarch status! - I'm talking Bobby G style, 9 wounds, 7 attacks, 2+/3++, S7 T6, and then some buff battery aura's, and the Klaw of Apocolyse for some mortal wounds or slash/crush modes for horde vs anti big, looking in the 350-400 pts range
2. Painboyz back to klaw optional - Right now Pain boyz MUST by a power klaw, its a weird 13 pt tax on a unit that is there to buff. Seems like a simple fix to make it an upgrade rather than mandatory.
3. Burna/lootas to D3+1 - currently at d3 these units can fall flat really hard, which makes them hard to count on. give some mitigation to the randomness.
4. Warbikes dustcloud back - The rule use to be +1 to cover save but they way they did the skitarii chicken walkers guys with -1 to hit feels better for "dust cloud". You are paying a lot of points for a unit that dies turn 1 like 99% of the time cause they have a bad save and are an easy target.
5. Meganobz buff - Not sure what they need for balance but a 5+ invul like terminators, or point drop, or no moving shooting penalty. they just need something to come back into the realm of useful tools in the kit.
6. FLASH GITZ - Please give these loot happy Nobz the 4+ armour save. the fact they wear 6+ when the model has massive armour plating is crazy. Also a +1S "Kutlas" rather than a choppa makes sense, at 24 pts a model they are decent but need a little boost.
7. STOMPA - GOD just redo this whole thing. I don't know how to make this thing work without breaking it but right now at 973 pts this is the biggest joke of a model in 40k. In its current state I wouldn't play more than Magnus ( 415-425 pts??) for it with max upgrades.
Those are my unit wish lists. I think Orks are in a great place considering they are an index. There are a few model point adjustments that need to happen like Mek guns going up, and some weapon load outs going down but that is more fine tuning than an issue.
Stratagem wish list
1. 1CP Get'EM : 3d6 charge like the blood letters, I think this helps orks make that clutch charge when they need it
2. 2 Cp Greentide : after a unit of orks successful charges role a dice for each ork in the unit, on 6's cause a mortal wound. Kinda a "trample" effect of being crushed under the weight of boyz. helps deal with elites
3. 1 CP Dakka, Dakka, Dakka : ***this is already a C.A strat but it sucks. pick 1 unit on 6s to hit you fire another shot...so if you fire 30 shoota boyzs on average you get an extra 3 hits??? It should be 6's counts at 2 hits. This mathematically is about +1 BS but obviously with good or bad luck it can be a lot different
4. 1 CP Pay them no heed: Gives unit of grots the character rule so they cant be shot unless closest. Help keep some cheap back filed stuff alive
5. 2 CP Ammo Runts : fire a unit a 2nd time ( same as many others codex)
6. 3 CP No mercy: Fight again at the end of the fight phase (same as others codex)
7. 2 CP WAAGH: Advance and charge even without a warboss near by ( same as other codex)
Orks <CLAN> wish list
<GOFF> - Ghazy's and Zagstruk clan. Re-roll to hit on Charge or Charged. +1 to charge range. Just help the orks make that first swing really count?
<DeathSkull> - Mad Doc Clan. 6+ FnP army wide, some sort of buff for Painboyz Aura like 5+ FnP vs damage 1? They are suupose to be tough to kill and have cybork bodies
<Blood Axe> - Boss Snikrot Clan. 1 cp "sneaky Git" like Alpha legion sepcial deployment. Also count in cover unless they have charged. they are famous for stealth, flanking and Kommandos.
<Evil Suns> - zhadsnark clan (FW bike warboss). advance 2d6 +1 take the highest. no penalty for advancing and firing assault weapons. Lets them stay fast with little draw back.
<Bad moon> - N/A characters. no penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons or shooting on a 5+ regardless of modifiers. Have most money and best tech, and things like flash gitz. Tend to be very shooty
<Snake bite> - N/A characters. Traditionalist like to use monsters/ poisons. always wounds on a 5+ or re-roll to wounds? No clue on this one.
*** FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO -1 in this codex. Orks works on flooding the table, making them harder to hit would be bad for everyone.
Any way nothing official yet but I have hopes!
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 4, 2018 11:47:15 GMT -5
Stompa needs to be a knight equivalent plain and simple. It could maybe have more wounds to compensate for it's shitty BS, but it definitely cannot cost double what an imperial knight does, when a solo knight can easily outclass it.
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 4, 2018 12:14:46 GMT -5
Stompa needs to be a knight equivalent plain and simple. It could maybe have more wounds to compensate for it's shitty BS, but it definitely cannot cost double what an imperial knight does, when a solo knight can easily outclass it. Ya since knights in 7th a stopma has always been this 2nd class super heavy. ( the weird FW 50% off loophole excluded) I wanna see the stompa just be playable. one of the big things is to remove the 4 damage brackets so it only has 3 like most super heavies. |
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jun 4, 2018 12:48:58 GMT -5
It's also just punished so so badly by the change to blast weapons.
Like it was priced at what the value of a 10" pieplate was, when instead it's getting like 7 shots hitting on 5. Trading the ability to wipe multiple units in a single shot to *maybe* killing 2 Marines.
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 7, 2018 7:40:21 GMT -5
So I haven't hear any for real rumors on the Ork codex but there seems to be the back ground lurking rumor of " Prime Orks", aka the Primaris of the ork line. Bigger more AoS sized orks that would be like super nobz with 3 wounds etc to introduce a better scale model for orks.
I have no clue what to make of it but it is interesting at least even if very very unlikely. I'd love to see some bigger models for some of the ork speical units.
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Post by nekekami on Jun 7, 2018 13:39:47 GMT -5
Ork-Primes are already established, part of the War of the Beast series that was set between the Horus Heresy and the events of the 41st millennium. Other than being a seriously awesome read and having a ton of things thrown into it that segue from the Heresy novels themselves, it's probably one of the better arcs from GW writers. It details the foundation of the Deathwatch and the formation of the modern Inquisition, all from a Heresy-era Not Space Marine (no spoilerinos from me). There's a ton of great stuff, seriously. wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Beast <---- Ork-Prime wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/War_of_the_Beast <---- Overview of the series itself |
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 7, 2018 22:25:52 GMT -5
Ork-Primes are already established, part of the War of the Beast series that was set between the Horus Heresy and the events of the 41st millennium. Other than being a seriously awesome read and having a ton of things thrown into it that segue from the Heresy novels themselves, it's probably one of the better arcs from GW writers. It details the foundation of the Deathwatch and the formation of the modern Inquisition, all from a Heresy-era Not Space Marine (no spoilerinos from me). There's a ton of great stuff, seriously. wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Beast <---- Ork-Prime wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/War_of_the_Beast <---- Overview of the series itself Thats pretty cool. I guess it doesnt fit the time line well as this was pre horus. If ghazy got a big enough waagh together or some how assended to this prime ork power might be a cool twist. Give him a new big model, and some hard hitting rules. |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jun 8, 2018 12:20:52 GMT -5
Inspired by the above, I decided to try and write out a Space Wolves wishlist for myself.
Wolves Wishlist:
Balance & Rules:
Counter Attack Re-implementation - I'd like to see some sort of count-as-charged or always-fights-first mechanic that messes with combat resolution order here
Blood Claw & Grey Hunter Point Reduction - I'd like to see the Grey Hunter body come down 1 point and the Blood Claw body come down 2 points, through this is rather unlikely imo.
Headstrong - This rule is important fluff wise to keep, but it needs reworking. It used to give you extra attacks on the charge at the cost of bringing the character, now it only has downsides.
HQ Character point rebalancing - Some of the more fun characters are rather overcosted, while a few like Arjac already have good value. I'd like the overcosted ones brought down a little bit or given abilities that make their high cost tolerable. An example would be Krom Dragongaze at 115pts when a Wolf Lord with a Thunder Hammer costs 98 points and has a better statline/weapon/etc (apparently a -1 to morale within 3" is worth over 20 points?!?!)
Harald Deathwolf Fix - Fix his damn outflank ability to work with Thunderwolves. How can the guy whose fluff is literally about calvary charges out of no where not be able to bring thunderwolves with him when he outflanks?
Wolf Banners - Reimplement these in some way, allowing rerolling failed charges would be a great option imo, I don't mind paying the points for them!
Warlord Traits, Relics and Psychic Powers:
I'd like to see a couple warlord traits that go well with the general choppy-punchy-hero parts of the space wolves characters, perhaps some ability to get command free rerolls in combat for the warlord, or that trigger when fighting enemy characters. I think we'll also see a command point regen ability for all them wolf-on-wolf tactics.
Additionally, I'd love to see some of the Sagas return as warlord traits, possibly with the ability to give them to Lone Wolves.
I'd like to see a relic Thunder Hammer or Frost Axe
I'd like to see a relic Storm Shield
Access to a either the Null Zone psychic power or an equivilent ability.
Access to a psychic power that makes a unit immune to morale or that demoralizes the enemy in some manner would be fitting.
Stratagems:
I'd love to see a couple stratagems that are rehashes of the old saga rules, like for example a Stratagem that allows a character to stay on the table and regain D3 wounds the first time they are slain.
I'd love to see a Stratagem similar to Killshot but for 3 units of Long Fangs.
A stratagem to advance & charge with a unit or to get a 3D6 charge would be rather appropriate imo.
Some sort of blood-lust stratagem for Blood Claws or Sky Claws to give a unit extra attacks or exploding attacks, I wouldn't even mind if it was 2 CP if the ability was decent enough to justify it.
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Post by nekekami on Jun 8, 2018 12:23:19 GMT -5
Jordan-
Sorry, should of been "between the end of the Horus Heresy and the 41st millennium" as this was right after everything settled down in M32 (might of been M31, but yeah). Either way, it filled in a bunch of stuff that is important to the Imperium in regards to bureaucracy and a bunch of people hating the High Lords of Terra for being a bunch of idiots, which is a familiar theme.
Anyway, yea. Rumour is that Ghazzy could be hitting Ork-Prime status, which would put him on par with Primarchs, probably like Guilliman is as a force multiplier meant to be stuck in the middle of things as he should be. End result is that there is a lore-based precedent already for how this being a thing. So, good times for Orks are coming.
Edit:
I mostly agree with the Wolf list, though there's already a bunch that is implemented if in limited bits.
I do miss counter-attack and acute senses having an impact, so I expect these rules to be added back into the mix somewhere. We got True Grit back as a stratagem in Chapter Approved, so that'll stay. We do have an always fights first Warlord trait (also a Saga, so yeah), which will likely stick around.
Headstrong is a drawback, but Blood Claws also get Berserk Charge, which is the upside of the old rule, so nothing has changed there. Grey Hunters have Wolf Banners still. Both are 13 points a model. I don't think they'd be reduced more since they're both priced the same as Tactical Marines while having clear advantages over them.
Character changes are a given, in regard to both points and rules. We'll just have to see what happens, especially with the Russ rumours. Also on that, the Great Companies will have their equivalent rules that make them different, which I expect Harald and his Deathwolves to get back their outflanking shenanigans.
Again, Warlord traits will be Sagas, that's a given as we already have some.
We have a bunch of character specific relics of the sort. I expect a pair of wolf claws, the helm back, armour of some sort, probably a frost bolter/pistol, and a totem of some kind. In general it'll be stabby-choppy or fighty. It's kind of their thing.
The three powers we have right now are all amazing. I doubt we'd get something like Null Zone, it's never been a thing we've used before. I'd like to hope we get a soothsaying power for granting a reroll to be used in the turn, another zappy power since we lost both of the ones we had. Jaws right now is pretty disgusting, though I don't see it changing much, if at all.
I have no idea about Stratagems though, they're kind of the wild card to be used to fill in and/or enhance whatever they do/don't do for the general rules and the rules for the Great Companies. There will be a reprinting of the general Space Marine ones (keywords yo) so I expect there to be a bunch of flexibility. I would kill for an exploding attack strat though. The sheer abusiveness that could come of it makes me so happy. Could even be like old talons, giving extra attacks from successful wounds.
Now, I'm eagerly awaiting the changes to Thunderwolves. They need it, because they went from being amazing to being dumpster worthy, or at the very least, being fast, and nearly overpriced meatshields. Wulfen too are likely gonna be looked at, as they're easily the best unit available to Space Wolves right now. I expect them to lose some part of their giant list of rules for a stratagem. Maybe not though, GW just might let the insane blender unit stay as is.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jun 8, 2018 14:13:04 GMT -5
my wishlist I tried to ground in reality as much as I could, I didn't want to wish for insane crazy things there's no chance in the warp of getting. Tho thanks for letting me know that I'm not far off the mark. I haven't even read the index for my wolves yet, I haven't taken them out of their box yet.
I was actually thinking along the same lines with the exploding attacks, re-create the old Saga of the Warrior Born as a strat that grants exploding attacks or off successful wounds like the old Dual-Lighting-Claw-Blender-Wolf-Lord. (through on the to-hit rolls is a bit more functional in terms of game-flow.)
I'm really hoping for the point reduction on blood claw bodies so I can run a horde of Skyclaws as cheap fodder/screen/tarpit, nothing like throwing a 15 man unit or something like that down for 200 points and forcing the enemy to chew it up while you close the distance.
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Post by nekekami on Jun 8, 2018 15:53:21 GMT -5
Again, both Blood Claws and Grey Hunters are already 13 points a piece. The only way Blood Claws reasonably get a points reduction is if they go back to being 4+ WS, which I don't see happening.
I do agree with the hope that Skyclaws go back to being 15 models max though. Even for 240 points for 15? I'd consider it.
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