A notion of Tau as Rome.

[Duffy]

Hello everyone,

I have been reading a lot of Tau fluff from GW lately and have been reading a lot of forums online and have come across an idea that many people have placed for the Tau.  Now follow me on this one:

A lot of people think the general feel of the Tau Empire is East Asian (more specifically Japanese).

I know, it`s crazy.  From board to board I see that a lot of people are falling into this trap of "Asianess" but I think that a lot of people are missing a huge general vibe with the Tau.  

I think that the Tau feel more like Rome during the Middle to Late Roman Empire.

Let`s take a look at what generally makes people think the Tau Empire is East Asian in influence.

East Asia
1. Robots.  More specifically the Plastic Models that you can buy, paint and pose.  Tau models (especially the battle suits) really do look like the Gundam Models.

2. The two different styles of Tau warfare, Mont'ka and Kan'youn.  A lot of people have attributed these two styles of Tau warfare to the works of Changqing (known in the west as Sun Tzu) and his treatise "The Art of War".

3. Weeaboo Fanboys.  I`m not going to go too far down this path as it was far more fun to write than it is correct.  People play Tau for many reasons not just because they "look" Asian.

4. People say "They feel Asian."  I have lived in Asia for 7.5 years.  I have no idea what people say when they say something "Feels Asian."  This is mincing words and terms but India in Asia and Japan in Asia are very, very different in "feel".


Why do I think they feel Roman.

Roman Empire

1. Technology.  A large part of the Roman Empire`s success was that they were much more technologically advanced than their enemies.  Rome (middle to later)  was famous for using various implements which many other civilizations could not match.  They used catapults, ballistias and had a standardized and high quality equipment for each soldier.     

2. Absorption.  A large part of warfare (Asian or not) has been to destroy the enemy, to kill them.  Rome would indeed kill their enemies (brutally, without mercy and sometimes in a fashion that borders on math instead of military) but in many, many cases would recruit from the local populace instead.  Rome would field African cavalry, Middle Eastern heavy infantry, Spanish archers and other soldiers from around the Empire.  The Tau seem more than happy to bring in various other races to their empire instead of simply blowing them out of the water.  Blowing them out of the water is Plan B.

3. Tactics and Tacticians.  The greatest way that a Roman could become powerful was to wage war and win victories.  To be known as a great tactician was to be the height of Roman capacity qualifications for a good life.  Looking at the Tau I can see that tactics and tacticians are much more lauded than winning battles.  A Tau commander may be forced to quit a battle ground but if they were able to keep their forces and fight another day they are lauded as a great leader.  This seems to ring much more for the Roman style of warfare of choosing the right place at the right time instead of entering any pitched battle.

4. Politics and treatise.  The Romans loved them some treatise.  If they could absorb an area or civilization with some politicians, a few pieces of paper and not sending an army half way across the know world they were all about it.  The Tau have a dedicated caste that is all about making treatise with people and signing paper work.  This is a lot more Roman than some of the other expansionist civilizations that have been.

I won`t move into the smaller realm of battle tactics because actual military tactics used by East Asian civilizations and Roman military tactics can be debated for weeks with no answer.  I tried to keep things a little general, thus making my ideas highly disputable.

What do you guys think of my idea?  I realize that many empires have had a faucet of the Tau Empire and lets not get into military tactics but I`m think that the Tau should be more compared to the Roman Empire.

(Sources:  I spent 4 years at university studying history including classes on Rome, Japan and China.  I have lived 7.5 years in South Korea and have read a lot of books on Asian History and Culture.)

[voodoo]

I always thought them more like the mongols than anything else; but I can see merit in your points.

[Khalai]

Lets not pretend that the origins of Tau=Japan is anything but Mech=Anime-Japan and then shoehorned into equivalencies from there.

That said I like the analysis.

[Frosty the Pirate]

Yeah, let's face the real fact here, there's no deep link why people think Tau are Japan. They see gundams and advanced tech make the connection. (But those people are silly!)

LETS GET CRAZY NERDY IN HERE!

Now, I could put together a lengthy discussion about how Imperial Japan (Note: NOT MODERN JAPAN) imported their Imperial Expansionism ideals from Europe during the late 19th and early 20th century, which would probably both support your claim that Roman ideals are close to Tau (because Imperial European Powers had a lot of influence in their systems from Rome), but also undermine it because Imperial Japan (1868 to ~1945-1947) imported and radicalized a lot of those concepts in different forms. But being a late-to-the-game Imperialist Expansionism Culture that had to leverage technology and to blend their older class based society into a modern democratic government imbued with absolute divine rights of their leadership sounds nothing like Tau.... =P (this is an extremely short summary version)

So, in extremely short summary: Late Roman Republic Ideals + 19th/20th Century Imperial Expansionism Ideals + Amping up things to the extreme with total devotion to the cause = Imperial Japan, which starts to sound a lot like Tau if you dial it up even further and put it in space. =P

TL:DR (Or for non-hardcore-history-nerds) - Tau != Japan, but it's an easy mistake to make to think they are based on Imperial Japan because the main fluff points we have about how Tau society works makes it easy to use our modern ideals and viewpoints to stereotype them as based on Imperial Japan.

[stofficus]

One of the key facets of Rome that the Tau are missing though is how the Romans adapted to the technology of their enemies.

Namely, Rome would copy technologies which worked - aqueducts, the gladius hispaneisis, lorica hamata (chain mail), etc, or when direct adaptation was impractical, would custom-build a counter to it should it present a threat, such as the lobster tail extension on the rear of the coolus helmet in response to Dacian falx. Rome only innovated insofar as it would copy an idea and expand its implementation, or build a super-specific military counter to an enemy technology.

The Tau, on the other hand, aside from vague references to the Ethereals being someone else's creation, or maybe harnessed leftover AdMech tech from their initial survey of T'au, innovate for the sake of innovating - pushing the technological envelope ever forwards with a mentality of "all ahead full and damn the torpedos." while they have attributed certain designs as counters to Ork and Imperial tech/tactics, it's a very distinct process to the Roman model of direct theft or bespoke solution.

The technical aspect of the Tau Empire is very much drawn not so much from the reality of the situation, but the pop culture perception of East Asia of pushing the technological envelope beyond what the general public considers the "normal rate" or with disdain for risk.

Otherwise I'd say Ray has the right of it being the fusion of the aggressive Imperialism rampant in the 19th/20th century which 40k certain draws on, with the idea of being the "late to the party" power which considers itself as justified as anyone else in its rights to conquest and expansion. Their geopolitical role is akin to Meiji Japan, but it's the pop culture connotations of reckless technological progress and vaguely Japanese inspired aesthetic that triggers most simplistic reactions.

Then there's that bunch of people who think they're space Communists, who are right out to lunch.

[Frosty the Pirate]

Aug 30, 2018 18:35:30 GMT -5 stofficus said:

Then there's that bunch of people who think they're space Communists, who are right out to lunch.

I actually snorted liquid out my nose from laughing so hard when I read this. Well Played Sir!

[Duffy]

The part of the Tau that I am greatly drawn to is the whole gauntlet in a velvet glove.

We are the Tau.

We care not who you were, are, or will be but will welcome you with open arms into our glorious empire. We are here to give you advanced technology, a greater way of life and will allow you to keep your own culture to a large extent.

All you have to do is kneel.

Failure will result in destruction.

[Frosty the Pirate]

Aug 30, 2018 20:44:41 GMT -5 Duffy said:

The part of the Tau that I am greatly drawn to is the whole gauntlet in a velvet glove.

We are the Tau.

We care not who you were, are, or will be but will welcome you with open arms into our glorious empire. We are here to give you advanced technology, a greater way of life and will allow you to keep your own culture to a large extent.

All you have to do is kneel.

Failure will result in destruction.

I'm reminded of this scene... As I'm sure you know, it didn't go so well for Darius the First, or Xerxes

[trantos01]

Speaking of kneeling or destruction, while the Tau have taken to extremely slow and subversive means in order to 'safely' entice Imperial worlds into converting (so as to not get another Crusade fleet to the face); do they bother going this route against smaller Xeno empires and/or single planet species etc?

Because from what I understood their initial game plan is to try diplomacy and if that didn't work, convert the populace by force. It's for their own good after all.

They just can't do this with the Imperium because it has been very bluntly shown that the humans massively outgun them.

[Duffy]

In the fluff there`s some interesting conjecture about the Vespid Stingwing strain leader helms. The 1d4chan Vespid page has a brief hint of the idea that the Vespid have been mind controlled that is echoed in some of the codex fluff.

1d4chan.org/wiki/Vespid

[trantos01]

Yep, saw that a while back. So it's fairly safe to say that while the Tau do try diplomacy first, if they want you in their Empire, they are going to use all potential methods if talking fails.