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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 17, 2019 22:16:00 GMT -5
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Post by LizardTau on Feb 17, 2019 22:25:59 GMT -5
head shot for the vindicare is crazy
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Post by raceygaming on Feb 17, 2019 23:04:21 GMT -5
God this is just going to be a nightmare for everyone who isn't imperials. It's just another super easy tool to add to your soup for 85 pts a 1 CP.
Think you are gonna hit a buff dependent army bring out your sniper. They have a weak backline, come on berserker. they need to get off a psychic buff to combo well here is my -2 zone.
And since it's a cp at deployment you pick which it will be as needed.
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Post by LizardTau on Feb 18, 2019 6:39:30 GMT -5
That brings up the question do you have access to these strats if you dont have an assassin in your army?
Like can you do as you said and leave your self 85 points and use one cp to bring one in? Or do you need to have one in your army list to be able to use one of their strats?
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 18, 2019 7:02:00 GMT -5
if you spend the CP to add one to your army you're allowed to use it's stratagems.
It's super powerful, and given the point cost, this is an easy slide in to any imperial soup army. ie: way to go GW... you just made "that list" from LVO even more powerful and broken. To make this THAT powerful and only cost 1 CP and 85 points is WAY over the top in my opinion.
Given that the vindicare can spend 1 CP to shoot twice, perhaps killing two characters (fairly easily with no invuls and headshot ability) then spend 1 CP to refund the 2 CP. Then do it again next turn.
NOTE: this is NOT released yet and is not legal for clubs.
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Post by raceygaming on Feb 18, 2019 7:50:48 GMT -5
Like I'm happy that they are give the assassin love and are trying to find a way to let you list build them since they are all elites but this feels rough. They made it so.easy to.set.aside 85 pts and side board what ever you need once you see the army.
It also doesn't help that it's a white dwarf? I guess it is easier/faster than putting together a codex of imperial agents or the likes but it feels like it's less polished/ tested then a codex.
Overall this just makes those soup lists so much more bitter for players.
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Post by LizardTau on Feb 18, 2019 8:17:47 GMT -5
Actually just looked it up.
According to the FAQ of the rulebook the requirement to having assess to a stratagem is to have a detachment of that faction in your army.
So to be able to use the strat too add an assassin to your army since it is an assassin strat you would need an assassin in your army.
Edit:
Never mind they have an exception in their rules under stratagems allowing any imperial faction to use their starts
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Post by trantos01 on Feb 18, 2019 10:10:50 GMT -5
Well I know what every single competitive Imperial player is going to be bringing to the table from now on when the rules officaly drop. With the no invul saves thing and 72 inch range every single one of my characters will have to hug cover to break line of sight or just die.
And even worse an Imperial player can just dump the vindicare in the middle of his army forcing me to make a banzai charge with everything in the hopes of getting to him before all my characters are dead.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 18, 2019 11:12:58 GMT -5
Well I know what every single competitive Imperial player is going to be bringing to the table from now on when the rules officaly drop. With the no invul saves thing and 72 inch range every single one of my characters will have to hug cover to break line of sight or just die. And even worse an Imperial player can just dump the vindicare in the middle of his army forcing me to make a banzai charge with everything in the hopes of getting to him before all my characters are dead. absolutely agree with you there but I'm willing to wait to see what impact this makes for the game before we have to implement the "NOPE" button locally, as GW tends to correct these wild imbalances rather quickly and I anticipate the outcry is going to be HUGE once this gets officially printed. the 1 CP for matched vs. 3 CP for non-matched play is mind-boggling to me.... if anything that should be reversed. The headshot rule is crazy on the vindicare platform. The other assassins are really good mind you (especially the Culuxus - but he always was), but the only one that seems outright bonkers is the vindicare plus the 1 CP just include whichever you'd like in the army to effectively list tailor. I mean what imperial army wouldn't set aside 1 CP and a mere 85 points to be able to bring a hard counter to whatever opponent you face, with zero impact on the battalions you have to bring, or really require you to have any opportunity cost whatsoever? |
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Feb 18, 2019 11:50:01 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm less worried about the Vindicare compared to the Genestealer Cult assassin with the relic sniper. He will one-shot almost any infantry level psycher in the game, while causing him to explode from perils, hurting everything around him. Plus, he can shoot twice the turn he arrives. Literally played against one this morning. Blew the head off of my 5 wound Primaris Psyker in one round, and took three wounds off the leviathan near him. Could have been worse if I didn't know it was coming. That was with average rolling!
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Post by raceygaming on Feb 18, 2019 12:03:27 GMT -5
I guess the big difference between the 2 is you don't need a psyker to play the game and can hide a single model if needed.
With buffs/auras being such a huge part of the game right now. This feels worse to most armies.
You need your aura in a location in order to make things work and can't hide that.
The other big difference is who can bring GSC? You can kinda soup them with nids/AM.
But the assassins can be in any imperial list! You have all your space marines, sister, AM, custodes, knights... just so much more to worry about.
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Post by voodoo on Feb 18, 2019 13:08:04 GMT -5
I'm going to wait and see, like Shannon said; GW has been better recently about taking care of the wild imbalances.
And this really feels like a very wild imbalance from a first and second glance.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Feb 18, 2019 13:36:41 GMT -5
What's the most dangerous thing to a submarine? Another submarine.
What's the most dangerous thing to a sniper? Another sniper!
It's ok guys, you don't need to worry about the enemy sniper cus you'll have your own sniper to protect yourself!
This message was brought to you by sarcasm
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Post by Typhus on Feb 18, 2019 15:04:35 GMT -5
Cypher has the Imperium keyword, so if you're feeling a bit cheeky and decide to make him your warlord you can add Assassins to your Chaos army.
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Post by coymastermikhail on Feb 18, 2019 15:47:04 GMT -5
I would wait and see. It seems every month something comes out thats "broken" and going to ruin the game, and its still the most balanced and fun its ever been IMO.
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