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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 21, 2021 9:59:08 GMT -5
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 21, 2021 10:34:35 GMT -5
It's a start, but not nearly enough yet. We'll need a few rounds of these to really get the game into a good place again- cherry picked nerfs and buffs are leaving huge swathes of ranges, entire armies even, out in the cold.
Nagash and Archaeon getting nerfed again is... fine, I guess. Doubletap on Irondrakes makes me sad since they're the crutch that props up my Dispossessed. Kragnos is the most interesting thing here imo- that's almost a complete warscroll rewrite without changing his points! Is he good? Probably not, but he's *definitely* a lot more interesting than he was.
Looks like chaos chariots went down 5 and fomoroid crushers down 10 and the warshrine went up 30 which I infer was specifically to make sure Typhus slaves list cost the exact same amount of points with no changes.
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Post by Malarks on Dec 21, 2021 10:58:12 GMT -5
Woo! I am unaffected!
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Post by StepwisePilot on Dec 21, 2021 11:22:52 GMT -5
Amulet of Destiny got nerfed to a 6+ ward instead of 5+. Makes sense, as it was very good for a generic artifact.
Sadly for me, I now need to buy some more models, as my 2000 point Ironjawz list is now just above 2000. Bah. On the other hand, I'm building an Ogor Mawtribes force (very slowly), and some of their things went down in points cost.
For anyone looking to make a list, the warscroll builder site hasn't been updated yet from what I can tell.
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Post by artonas on Dec 21, 2021 11:35:47 GMT -5
My kruleboyz are pretty much unaffected besides the new rules for unleash hell and the change to amulet of destiny which was an auto include on any monster characters.
I do like that they added some more rules to Kragnos and added a 6+ ward save.
I was expecting more changes in this update but that’s fine by me. Means no major changes to how I was building my kruleboyz means I need more bolt boyz.
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Post by dave on Dec 21, 2021 11:50:39 GMT -5
Changing amulet of destiny is huge, but not surprising. I'll definitely miss it for my 5-10 wound characters, but I understand why no one was happy about it being given to a 35 wound giant.
Pretty happy about the unleash hell change too. The range was ridiculously large, and too easy to protect a large section of the battlefield with 1 ranged unit.
My shaggoth went down points, which is makes me happy (no more 5 ward though). Ghorgon and cygor quite a bit cheaper, but it's still a terrible warscroll and an easy point for the enemy. Bullgors and dragon ogres going down in points does make me want to add some of them though.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 21, 2021 12:32:17 GMT -5
Amulet was probably overnerfed - 50% effectiveness is extremely enough it will probably swing from always to never take. We've seen 6+ ward type relics in the past and they rarely ever cut it. Arcane tome is still bonkers so I think it'll be even more ubiquitous now.
Unleash nerf: warranted but still doesn't fix the underlying problem that shooting is too good.
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Post by dave on Dec 21, 2021 13:58:03 GMT -5
Agreed on both counts. I don't necessarily think a 5+ ward was too good, but it did easily surpass most battletome relics (since so many are flat out bad). As you say, they may as well have deleted it completely. I've had access to 6+ wards and never really considered it for the relic slot. Again, I think the real issue (and I'd have preferred a targeted nerf here) is the mega giant taking one. Armies consisting of only a few super heavies play havoc on game balance. Who could have imagined that?
Shooting is too powerful. I don't even know how they are going to dial back that arms race. There are plenty of ranged units whose damage contribution is marginal at best (ungor raiders say hi) but as soon as you want to distinguish a unit as elite, or just better than average, its impact on the game increases exponentially.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 21, 2021 15:33:53 GMT -5
It's even bonkers internally among factions known for good shooting. Stormcast are a great example because they have... 5 dedicated shooting units and sub-options beneath those units, and they vary from "wipe all your characters turn 1" (*cough* longstrikes *cough*) to "I'm bringing these because I like how they look".
So it's definitely a problem with specific units, but there are enough of these units floating around that it's a trend and not an anomaly.
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Post by dave on Dec 21, 2021 15:45:46 GMT -5
Haha I'm building a stormcast army, and I'm specifically avoiding the temptation to buy any longstrikes. I did grab a box of vigilors though. So yeah, I feel you on this one!
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Post by redshirt2375 on Dec 21, 2021 17:57:16 GMT -5
"looks at his collection which includes 20 Judicators, 4 Ballista, a box of Vigilators, uncounted Castigators, and 3 longstrikes"
I really didn't intend on shoot cast when I started, but the lots I grabbed included most of it so it's an option for me now
But I have been telling myself I'm not going to buy more raptors because I don't want to be "that guy"
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Post by StepwisePilot on Dec 21, 2021 18:53:06 GMT -5
So, I was looking around with the points changes, and what I actually own for Ironjawz. Sadly, I don't own enough stuff to be able to switch anything out, and won't be able to buy anything new for a while. As such, I likely have to skip out on the match tournament.
Oh well, sucks to be me I guess.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 21, 2021 23:30:36 GMT -5
Have you tried subbing the mawkruska for gordrakk? That would eat up loose points in a different quantity than the available units
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 22, 2021 9:11:42 GMT -5
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 22, 2021 10:01:45 GMT -5
I dunno, I love Goonhammer's 40k coverage but the Sigmar stuff just isn't getting there (yet). Saying stuff like "The Warshrine going up is maybe the only one that has me scratching my head." doesn't inspire confidence in the author's game knowledge when they are unambiguously the best unit in Slaves. It also didn't 'gain' the priest keyword, it's literally always been a priest and a totem. There plenty of head-scratchers in the points adjustments but this wasn't one of 'em.
I think in general here they are understating the changes that will actually impact the game (amulet will likely change army compositions almost across the board and probably could have just been removed from the game, blood tithe doesn't just mean no archaeon it totally cripples Khorne until they get a new book) while spending a lot of character count on points changes that don't actually matter.
The best stuff is at the end, in the god piece analysis and the thoughts of each author. That's nice since they were definitely the highlight of the document.
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