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Post by voodoo on Aug 15, 2019 6:51:54 GMT -5
T6 with no invul doesn't really matter all that much when you're only 130 points and if you're Iron Hands, you don't care about damage until you're at 3 wounds remaining. Being able to infiltrate and fire, with freaking flamers no less is ridiculous.
So, Night Lords. Chaos Astartes "masters" of stealth, infiltration and surprise have to foot slog it across the board while loyalists get a "sneaky" dreadnought and a slew of infiltrating sneaky troops?
I feel like GW have gone a bit too far in trying to "balance" out Loyalist marines, but at least you'll have some new units to paint for your army Lukas.
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Post by LizardTau on Aug 15, 2019 7:06:23 GMT -5
If its 130 points three at 390 is not a huge investment for 39 toughness 6 wounds.
They will either do work or be a huge distraction that people will not be able to ignore.
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Post by voodoo on Aug 15, 2019 7:36:55 GMT -5
If its 130 points three at 390 is not a huge investment for 39 toughness 6 wounds. They will either do work or be a huge distraction that people will not be able to ignore. 100% Could not agree more. They're a low enough point investment that they'll be the new "distraction carnifex". They'll either get shot to death, giving your other units a turn or two of immunity; or they'll get ignored and then be able to pick apart nearly anything they get pointed at. I may be wrong, but I feel like they'll be one of the new "auto-include" units from the codex. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Aug 15, 2019 8:03:53 GMT -5
GSC: "we are the best infiltrating combat army in the game, because turn 2 we can do a 7" charge when all these buffs are stacked on units within 6" of this guardsmen"
marines: "hold my beer"
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Post by LizardTau on Aug 15, 2019 8:11:38 GMT -5
The thing with then will be deployment. If you put it first the enemy wont put anything near it. But if you dont and the enemies has some cheap throw away infiltrators then they will be too far away.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Aug 15, 2019 8:12:58 GMT -5
Gsc may actually be in a really good place to stop these dreads. Have the blips up front, and the dread can't move within 9". Reveal a cheap throwaway squad at the end of the marine movement phase, and they still have a 9" charge. Then counterpunch with abberants, who will tear this thing up no problem.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Aug 15, 2019 9:53:42 GMT -5
6d6 12" heavy flamer shots?
oh yeah, lol charging that with gsc will work out....
but if it's just one, those 300 points of abberants should kill it dead with minimal casualties...
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Post by Typhus on Aug 15, 2019 10:12:24 GMT -5
Although the Invictor looks like complete ass, it's nice to see an answer crop up to the hordes of 60 Plaguebearers we've been seeing all over competitive play.
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Post by coymastermikhail on Aug 15, 2019 10:52:50 GMT -5
I think you nailed it there. This isn't the first time this has happened. It happens all the time, and its always the same story. X will break the game, or why does (normally Imperials or Tau/Eldar) get all this great stuff all the time, etc.
Alot of armies have deployment shenanigans or hard couters. Chaos with spells and stuff can turn 1 charge, make themselves impossible (or damn near) to hurt, etc.
Ive been in this game since 3rd Edition, and Ive seen this kind of chatter/complaining a bunch. And i think it all has to do with resisting change. Bear with me
Using Primaris as an example, as they stand they are bad (RAW, without updates). This is fine with many people, as everyone likes to chirp on Marines, and its fine with me. After the horrors that were Demi Companies, they earned some time in timeout.
Chaos got much better with the right combos, especially with the addition of the Chaos Knights. So now you will see more Chaos soup.
Imperial soup is something that alot of people complain about, and for some very justifiable reasons. Marines 2.0 says marines can be really good with these doctrines, but only if every unit in your army is marines. Forget about allying in a Knight here, not if you want the most bang for your buck.
I think what it comes down to is that the current meta is all about daisy chaining screens to benefit from auras to maximise effectiveness. Not very cinematic, and i dont think the way the games was envisioned. Which is NOT necessarily a problem, play how you want within the rules (or not, ask your opponent). Primaris look to be chaff clearers par excellence.
This represents a shift in the meta. As we are a rather small, more friendly club in Kingston, i think it hits a tad harder. We already more or less know our top table players, the ones who know how to make a list and use it effectively. They are good players, and genuinely fun to play against. And everyone else learns alot from them.
I think it behooves us as individuals to ask ourselves why these new "OP" units offend us so much, before theyve benn surprise shoved at us in a match (gotcha players come to mind). And if you don't think this is a common theme, I would invite you to look back at the historics on this forum. Notable examples - Knights (recurring), D weapons (previous Ed.), Heldrake (and its nerf), 2++ rerollable seerstars (thankfully gone), 8th Ed GSC deployment shenanigans.
I guess what I am trying to say is this - we as individuals, and thus collectively as a community may wish to be more reserved in complaints, at least until we've seen how things go. GW interacts alot more with the community than before. I think they fully intend to shake up the meta with every codex release. They are taking much more time with them than before. Theres always CA to hike points as required (Castellan).
And full disclosure - I have wanted to start a custom chapter all-primaris force for awhile. And i intend to run at least one of these. So i guess im biased. But i choose shaking up the meta over stagnation.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Aug 15, 2019 11:11:02 GMT -5
Look at jake, coming in here with all that wisdom. I agree with just about everything you said my man.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Aug 15, 2019 11:11:56 GMT -5
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Aug 16, 2019 12:26:47 GMT -5
I might actually start a non-silly primaris army once some of the other chapters get their book (possibly salamanders) as marines look a lot less boring to play now (I'm not a fan of their current static playstyle)
however I stand by my historic complaints about d weapons, knights, rerollable seer stars... lol... (and since all that foolishness has been corrected gw agreed with my whining...lol)
I'm all for marines being good.. they are the big bad guys of the setting after all, and I want my chaos/xenos to have a properly terrifying villain to face!
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Aug 16, 2019 12:30:10 GMT -5
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Post by macstern on Aug 17, 2019 8:24:41 GMT -5
+19 for thunder hammer on character almost doubled.
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Post by raceygaming on Aug 17, 2019 10:49:21 GMT -5
Oh no Smash captains might just be good for their points rather than under costed!
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