Official 9th Edition Discussion Thread

[Khalai]

I thought it was faction focus not 2 units per faction focus.

[cmcd]

They give a tease for something from 9th. But majority if you lay that army you already know how your army works.

[trantos01]

The new character rules should help fix some of the shenanigans of 8e. You need to have a minimal size of unit (or a vehicle), within a given distance and visible+closer to the shooting enemy then the character.

Though with that rule in mind, I imagine the Cryptothralls have some special 'Look out Sir' rues or something because they're described as the Cryptek's 'sword and shield' but there are only two of them in the box set.

[ohgodsnakes]

I have a feeling that many bodyguard type units will have a special rule for that. Victrix guard, crisis bodyguards, command squads and the like.

[trantos01]

Seems like we're getting a last-ditch option for when your troops are surrounded by the enemy.

[Jack Shrapnel]

...and there goes any hope of balance between melee and shooting... even if you do everything right and survive to close, and wrap and trap (requires luck and skill to even get this far), they can still get out and leave you hanging... sigh.... GSC is getting kicked pretty hard by this... given they're rocking T3 with guardsmen armor. They're ONLY hope is to connect a charge, then wrap and trap to not immediately die. 

...and they were already getting screwed by the new CP system. For those that do not know this fun little rule, GSC are not allowed to duplicate any character models in a detachment... so now there's no way to get the CP you used to have... and if you want a duplicate character (ie: cast more than two psychic powers a turn) you lose even more CP. 

I absolutely hope I am wrong on this.

[Malarks]

But what about regular "Falling back"? Is that still a "Free shots at the melee army", like in 8th?

Cannot say I like this "Falling back when pinned", cos that's what I have been told to do, with a melee army, time and time again. "Pinning" is how you keep from getting lolwtfgbbq'd off the table after making a charge that doesn't consolidate in to the entire opposing force.

[trantos01]

I doubt it's something that going to come up very often. I mean first you need 2 CP to spend (depending on the point in the game, you might not have that much free)and the action makes the unit unable to do anything until your next turn.

Even if they 'escape' it can be ruinous for the unit as it's noted that if any models remain in engagement range are simply destroyed. With just the distance of a fall-back move against stuff like hordes of Orks or Tyranids, it's entirely possible that you can't get any of the unit out.

As for the 'free shots' it's been noted that only some units will have inherent overwatch while for others you need to spend a 1 CP strat.  So it'll be possible for units to fall back and not be able to shoot when the enemy charges again.

[Malarks]

Oh. I meant more the situation of;
- (in my case) Da Jump (because walking is for chumps looking to get shot off the table before doing anything) in and manage to make the 9" charge (if my opponent is Space Marines, I want to land outside of 12", to avoid that bullshit strategem, so I may as well not Da Jump)
- Charge in to enemy, fail to have movement to pin or consolidate in to multiple units.
- Unit charged falls back, rest of army obliterates hapless assaulters.
- Go cry on forums about it.

FFS...

[Jack Shrapnel]

Jun 21, 2020 12:06:35 GMT -5 trantos01 said:

I doubt it's something that going to come up very often. I mean first you need 2 CP to spend (depending on the point in the game, you might not have that much free)and the action makes the unit unable to do anything until your next turn.

Even if they 'escape' it can be ruinous for the unit as it's noted that if any models remain in engagement range are simply destroyed. With just the distance of a fall-back move against stuff like hordes of Orks or Tyranids, it's entirely possible that you can't get any of the unit out.

As for the 'free shots' it's been noted that only some units will have inherent overwatch while for others you need to spend a 1 CP strat.  So it'll be possible for units to fall back and not be able to shoot when the enemy charges again.

I think it's going to come up every game against a melee force actually as it counters the main tactic (wrap/trap) that melee armies MUST use in order to face shooting armies. to tripoint a unit with orks/tyranids you cannot get past the first line of the unit (stuff doesn't fly after all. So you spend the 2CP, and if you roll any ones, you just kill the trapped model. Now you can move 6" which will easily clear the unit. If you are completely surrounded and only have a couple models left in the unit and they cannot clear 6" even better. 2 CP and the deadly melee unit is gone (and you've only lost a couple models that would have easily died on your combat phase anyways so who cares) because you're now able to shoot it with anything you want. 

If you're trading an expendable screen unit (that is there to die anyways), then it's even better. 

[trantos01]

You're the expert. I've never had melee units in large enough quantities on the field to even think about wrap/trap. And that's likely going to carry over into 9e because I can't see the (likely fairly point-costly) melee destroyers coming in units bigger than six.

Sure if the rule of three is still in effect I could bring 18 and then a bunch of wraiths, but how many points would be available for the rest of the army?

[Jack Shrapnel]

Yeah necrons are definitely the exception here, as melee crons are more about small elite units (ie: wraiths) that do a fast attack onto a deadly (preferably shooting) unit to try and take them out, or at least make them fall back and not be able to shoot. So more surgical in application than a rushing horde (orks, nids, gsc, daemons) that are so fragile they cannot survive without trapping a unit in combat.

I love me some wraiths, they're pretty awesome... however the crons real strength is in the shooting, and I do think they're finally going to get some love.

Crons have had a weird ride in 40k. They cycle between "omg scary I'm gonna die" to "oh good, I drew crons in the tourney" back and forth so many times. GW has a bit of a difficult time balancing their power level for some reason, they seem to only go to the extremes either way. There was a time where massed warriors and triple monoliths were super scary... believe it or not...lol

[cmcd]

A good thing is, they can only use that strat once a phase, so charge more than one unit. So try and pin two units ... it’s challenging I know but with how terrain is supposed to work, I am hoping that it will be easier to get across the table in one piece .

[ohgodsnakes]

Can I suggest we wait and see what else the rules bring us before we gather our pitchforks? (Or bows, since melee is dead according to some on the internet?)

[Typhus]

I'm all for a better-designed game that isn't about tri-pointing your opponent and holding their units hostage in order to keep your melee units alive. Will we get that? Eh... it's not impossible...

Although, Cut Them Down makes me... less than optimistic.