|
|
Post by VaUkos on Oct 31, 2021 9:47:07 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by dave on Oct 31, 2021 11:01:41 GMT -5
I'm still skeptical I'll want to spend points upgrading a 1 wound model with a 5+ save that's already a priority target for my opponent. Will have to see what they do with the rules though.
I'm definitely looking forward to the book. Tau certainly need a lot of work to bring them in line with 9th, and this would be a great time to address all the issues with the core concept of the army. Genuinely hoping GW made the effort, but I'm not holding my breath, either. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised and find myself with a passion for 40k again.
|
|
|
|
Post by Frosty the Pirate on Oct 31, 2021 12:05:52 GMT -5
If you are a Tau fan, be prepared to both love and hate this new dex.
You'll love the updated rules, it'll make the army far more capable in the 9th edition landscape.
You'll still be mad at _something_. Tau will never again be allowed to field the same oppressive shooting level they did during the Tau'dar days of 6th Edition or when Riptide Wing was a thing. Don't expect completely broken OP rules or to be able to leafblower any opponent off the table.
Just like when several other codex rumors dropped in the past 12 months (Death Guard being the poster-child here), core-fundamental pieces of how Tau work are going to change, and if you 'just want the army to play like you want', you may be setting yourself up to be disappointed. Don't over-react to rumors, leaks, or whatever youtube community drum is being banged for view counts and clickbait. Approach it with an open-mind and be willing to accept the change.
I'm not immune to that type of response either, in about 3 weeks I'll probably be rage-posting about GSC changes while I wrap my head around that dex too.
|
|
|
|
Post by dave on Oct 31, 2021 13:04:13 GMT -5
I started collecting tau at the tail end of 7th, and began playing a couple of months into 8th. I wasn't around for the nonsensical tau'dar days, and I still don't own three riptides. I really don't have any interest in playing an OP army, or fielding whatever broken combos the win or die tournament crowd is advertising.
However, I would love to reach a point where people don't immediately assume I must miss being a cheese lord because I play tau.
I tried and failed to run tau as anything but a static castle through 8th. Then it was boring, now it's just incredibly punishing. 8th Tau relied on decent (not great) shooting, and above average durability (drones) to last long enough to break out and win in the end. This style of gameplay is not viable in 9th, and was never terribly engaging for either side. I'm hoping GW doesn't double down on this philosophy. The points costs of drones tells me they don't think it's any healthier for the army than I do.
I am definitely hoping for a full rework of the core mechanics. Gaining mobility and dropping the rules that promote castle play, would be at the top of my wishlist.
Tau damage output should never be great, because it all comes from the shooting phase. The choice comes down to being oppressive, or a bit lackluster, and I'd choose the latter. But that doesn't mean they have to be a weak or boring army. Give them other tools. Mobility tricks or debuffs for the enemy maybe? I'm no game designer, but there has to be something they can come up with that's closer to the fluff and more fun than they have so far.
I am definitely trying to be open to whatever the come up with, and I'm certainly not married to any ideas from the past. My biggest fear is a book with all the same abilities, and core designs while they hype all the extra numbers they added to our guns and wounds.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 31, 2021 15:35:17 GMT -5
Tau should be incredibly mobile... The return of jump shoot jump for battle suits I think would help alot.
Static gunline isn't fun for anyone
|
|
|
|
Post by lightcavalier on Oct 31, 2021 16:29:36 GMT -5
Tau should be incredibly mobile... The return of jump shoot jump for battle suits I think would help alot. Static gunline isn't fun for anyone Jump Shoot Jump would go a long way As would finding some way to make their transports actually meaningful (move + disembark, or maybe something let lets them re-embark in the assault step) I always wanted to do a Tau mechanized army (like even way back in 4th ed) but its just never been really viable. |
|
|
|
Post by VaUkos on Nov 2, 2021 13:26:52 GMT -5
Like Dave said I didn't choose the tau on how OP or powerful they are/were, I picked my army based on what I thought looked coolest to me and it was tau because the tau mechs (it was the broadside) look sick and the hammerhead with its rail cannon.
but I'm not expecting tau to become this army wiping faction nor do I want it to, I'm always expecting something I don't like in the codex but what I want to see is more mobility and survivability.
the biggest issues is that firewarriors have little to no survivability and they are supposed to be the main fighting force of an army but they get wiped away off of obj even with a crisis team to be a shield line to take the blows.
Like jack said i feel the same, away with the static gun lines, for a faction that's supposed to be more scientifically advanced why do they feel like a 1800s gun infantry line.
|
|
|
|
Post by cmcd on Nov 2, 2021 13:59:08 GMT -5
Move shoot move. And some sort of close combat suit or unit. Or even a heavy pulse pistol where hey can fire in close range with their weapons.
|
|
|
|
Post by Frosty the Pirate on Nov 2, 2021 15:41:42 GMT -5
Or even a heavy pulse pistol where hey can fire in close range with their weapons. Personally, I think this is the direction Tau are going to go. I could be wildly wrong, but allowing them to make ranged attacks either by turning their weapons into the Pistol type, or additionally by just giving things with the Battlesuit keyword shoot-in-combat like vehicles/monsters, and/or making use of things like Photon Grenades to give -2 to charge distance to enemies, or even something like giving Devilfish the Bodyguard rule for Infantry units within 3" or something would go a LONG way to making Tau less gun-castle prone and able to move forward with less fear of reprisal. I know lots of people are thinking JSJ is the answer, but I really doubt they get it in the form of anything more than a Stratgem for JETPACK keyword units or something where ONE unit can do it per assault phase. Having had army-wide JSJ in Eldar/Craftworlds years ago in editions past, that level of mobility would just be completely overwhelming to slower armies like DG/Necrons/etc, especially on the smaller/denser tables this edition where threat ranges and LOS can be very tight. But hey, what do I know? I'm some random guy on the internet. I've been wrong plenty of times before. |
|
|
|
Post by Jack Shrapnel on Nov 2, 2021 16:24:36 GMT -5
JSJ isn't the total answer but it's a start... eldar already have mobility + shooting with their ability and it's not really oppressive at all.
tau infantry are your standard T3 4+ save one wound dudes, I highly doubt that will change much.
but the battlesuits need to be far more mobile than they are now. And I see no reason why there cannot be a melee capable unit for tau. Why aren't those fusion swords an option for the sgt. in a crisis suit unit? might make charging them a little more dangerous.
And how about army wide fall back and shoot. I mean ultramarines have it, and it makes FAR less sense for them to do it compared to an army which is supposed to be all about shooting with pathetic melee right?
|
|
|
|
Post by Frosty the Pirate on Nov 2, 2021 16:52:57 GMT -5
You know, you actually just got me thinking. What if JSJ is the right solution, but the wrong implementation.
Imagine for a moment if Tau had a rule that let them move as the end of the shooting phase as long as they remained stationary in the Movement Phase? Or something similar where they can choose to delay their movement as long as they shoot as if they are moving?
The problem with JSJ is the double J portion. Double movement was a huge feels bad in 7th and 8th and everyone who had those abilities and recieved a 9th book so far has those double moves severely nerfed or limited what units were allowed to use it. So what if you take that out of the equation.
Allowing Tau to choose shooting then movement or movement then shooting, but specifically not move-shoot-move-again is a very interesting thought. It's a bit complex rules wise to implement, but it's certainly possible.
Imagine the tactical decisions it makes? Do I stay still and blast away at full effect? Do I purposely not double-tap my rapid fire so I can pounce on the objective after I clear that unit off? Do I shoot then fall back into cover? Lots of potential.
|
|
|
|
Post by LizardTau on Nov 2, 2021 17:01:39 GMT -5
Well original the tau jet pack allowed jump shoot jump because it had half the range of a jump pack.
Yes it would be more broken for units that can move 12 or more and then do it again. But 6 inches and then 6 inches.
Now with suits being 8 inches movement it could get messy as you said 16 inches would be crazyer.
If they dropped suits down to 6 inches and you can't advance when you do it. Might be a good option
|
|
|
|
Post by ohgodsnakes on Nov 2, 2021 18:22:02 GMT -5
-Make Crisis Good Again would be nice
-Farsight crisis troops
-Make the battlesuit keyword do something
-allow certain battlesuits to perform actions. In the fluff crisis suits do all sorts of stuff. Farsight even mercy kills a marine with a soil probe that pops out of the suit's heel. They are ment for more than just killing.
-drones stick with units maybe?
-re-work of marker lights (duh) in a way that allows suits to get bs3 without being oppressive.
-stormsurge to not suck would be cool
|
|
|
|
Post by Jack Shrapnel on Nov 2, 2021 18:46:34 GMT -5
here me out... Tau should be BS 3+ They are a shooting army with no melee or psychic. They're ONLY thing is shooting, they should be good at it. not BS 2+ or anything... but 3+ is quite fair for a shooting only army. Marker lights need to be reworked. Drones need to be reworked (they should definitely be part of the unit they're bought with, giving benefits as long as they're alive - thus making an actual tactical decision on whether you shrug to drones or not) the stormsurge MUST continue to suck though. Lukas doesn't get everything. That is a rule.  |
|
|
|
Post by cmcd on Nov 2, 2021 20:09:53 GMT -5
I would like the storm surge to not suck too…..
|
|
