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Post by dave on Jan 14, 2022 11:44:29 GMT -5
Looks like they did fairly well at accomodating my wishlist. Namely, make markerlights better, and remove the overwatch shenanigans. Some tau players are sad to see it the latter go, but I think it mostly incentivized boring play, that would likely lose you the game anyway.
Markerlights are just as easy to kill, but I need far fewer on the board to do what I need to do with them. Fair enough.
Ethereal buffs are better, though they go off on a 3+ instead of just happening, but most target a single unit. Can't give my 5x6 squads of fire warriors a 6+++, but one can have a 5+++.
Definitely looks like I'll have to learn everything about subsystems and weapon options all over again. The good systems (ats) are mostly gone, or hard to come by (no shield gen on the keel is weird) but the formerly useless ones may have some play, and more importantly are free, and don't take up a weapon slot.
I used to play mostly ion of all types. Unless I misinterpreted, now they all have the bad version of overheating. All 1's count as a mortal, rather than 1 per gun. With RR 1's no longer being pretty much guaranteed, I'm hoping the other options become more appealing. So far it looks that way, anyway
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 14, 2022 12:19:32 GMT -5
My takeaways reading the Tau rumor summaries:
Markerlights are actual reliable. No more pre-shooting-phase to see how effective you are going to be this turn where it's all based on how well you can roll 5+s. Vehicles with Markerlights like the Piranha, Skyray, and Sunshark are especially valuable as they can effectively distribute their marker light tokens "for free".
Bork'an and FSE will be the "popular" subfactions (aka the "good" ones).
Crisis Suits are going to default to 2+1 weapon loadouts, I don't see many situations where paying the "optimization tax" for three of the same weapon will be worth it outside of maybe certain Commander builds. I'd guess loadouts like 2xBurst+1xPlasma or 2xFusion+1xFlamer will be the "norm" (not necessarily these special weapons combos through), and taking the Shield Generator for the 4++ will be super-common imo.
Railsides are back in style. All the hype will be on the Hammerhead and Stormsurge but the real king here is the Railside. Heavy 2 S9 AP-4 D3+3 Damage and a free MW when you wound the target on every shot. Far more reliable than the high-risk-high-reward Hammerhead imo.
I'd guess the Ghostkeel (and possibly Stealth Suits) are going to get the GSC Saboteur treatment and only be targetable if closest or <12" range or something similar. If the leaker thinks it's hard to shift after having it's invul _removed_, it's going to get something significant like this imo.
2x Devilfish with your choice of Breachers/Firewarriors probably mandatory in every list. Devilfish are awesome especially with Breachers now with the disembark after moving strat and Breach and Clear sounds bonkers for clearing objectives with obsec infantry on them. I expect if Mont'ka is popular Breachers+DFish will be absolute staples.
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Post by lightcavalier on Jan 14, 2022 12:35:02 GMT -5
Rumour seems to indicate the stealth rules (ghostkeel, stealth suit, stealth drones) is cannot be targetted from outside of 18" unless closest target
But it was unclear if the rule was native to the model or produced by the drones
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jan 14, 2022 16:11:04 GMT -5
Firewarrior minimum squad size is 10 now. Mixed feelings.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jan 14, 2022 16:37:56 GMT -5
Firewarrior minimum squad size is 10 now. Mixed feelings. What is this Sigmar? |
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 14, 2022 17:17:33 GMT -5
Firewarrior minimum squad size is 10 now. Mixed feelings. In really hoping with min 10 that they are going to be 8 ppm. That's a tough pill to swallow but I guess its cause tau use to be able to put down a patrol for like 100 pts. 45 fireblade 45 fire warrior..boom new sept unlocked. Tho if the rumours of no mixing subfactiosn is true then it's a none issue. |
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Post by VaUkos on Jan 14, 2022 17:51:32 GMT -5
Firewarrior minimum squad size is 10 now. Mixed feelings. I hope they have better survivability if that's the case and some good leadership scores or i can see them being just wound fodder for certain models |
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Post by dave on Jan 14, 2022 18:48:32 GMT -5
I usually ran 30-40 troops just because I liked them. In the past it was generally 6x5 for dual battalion, and all the benefits that come with msu. 10s feel more "correct" to me, but I like the idea of massed infantry. I wonder if they changed the max. Was 12 for strike teams because that's how many came in the old box. Breachers maxed at 10 because new box. Would be weird to allow them to go 10min/12max, so I wouldn't be surprised if they just became 10s with no flex.
I don't know if ethereals still give their leadership in a bubble, but I have to imagine they do something for morale of troops. It was nice to ignore that mechanic in the past, but I may have to start paying attention to it.
Seems like FSE didn't get any extra treatment in this book, losing a lot of what they got in PA. Anyone wanna put money on them being the sub faction to get buffed when it's finally tau's turn to show up in a campaign?
I'd love for no mixing subfactions to be a thing. It's just a level of gamey I'm not a fan of. Ideally those rules let you focus on different units and playstyles within a book. Always felt lame using them to just cherry pick all the best rules for one list. But that's me. There's a limit to how much power gaming I can experience before my eyes begin to roll of their own accord.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 18, 2022 9:41:11 GMT -5
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Post by lightcavalier on Jan 18, 2022 9:48:03 GMT -5
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Post by voodoo on Jan 18, 2022 9:51:18 GMT -5
Looks like Bork'an is still going to be the "go to" sept. 30" range Stormsurge weaponry that also now ignores invuls with a 2CP strat. I can see a change in commander loadouts for the MW commander to high output weaponry to more easily fish for the 3 mortals/phase.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 18, 2022 10:19:06 GMT -5
Looks like Bork'an is still going to be the "go to" sept. 30" range Stormsurge weaponry that also now ignores invuls with a 2CP strat. I can see a change in commander loadouts for the MW commander to high output weaponry to more easily fish for the 3 mortals/phase. Ya funny enough with the strat the 12 damage shot will actually rarely see use, with its limited range and massive overkill on any thing shy of a main battle tank, but the secondary profile 48" heavy S12 -2 flat 4 is crazy when it ignores invuls. That can also hit for 24 damage in the perfect world but can pick up 4-5 terminators a turn even with -1 damage, cause of they flat 4 AND since its has the range you can drop the re-roll anchors turn one and just blast something. It will be pricey to do it EVERY turn but if you can catch something out with it, you can pick it up pretty easy. Not to mention that even without the ignore invuls the rest of its weapons aren't nothing. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 18, 2022 10:23:08 GMT -5
I gotta say, the access to all that ranged ignore invul is making me pretty nervous.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 18, 2022 10:29:01 GMT -5
The big things for me here is that tau are going to have a BUNCH of ways to mess with the math of who has what objectives and throw off peoples plans. It looks like there is:
Sa'cea - 9" give obsec, if it is obsec make it 2x models!!
crisis commander - give a unit of Crisis obsec in command phase
Custom sept - battles suit count as 3 models, ghostkeel/tide/surge count as 5 for objectives
custom sept - core units gain obsec for a turn if they charge / count x2 if they charge and are obsec. (crisis are core)
These are all things that tau need cause they are bad at the objective game right now and this is what fixes them. I think its gonna be clutch to throw an obsec on a unit of suit to steal objectives before you score. making a unit of 10 fire warriors counts as 20! might be worth to soak some damage in the fight phase, if you still have 3-4 left at the end you will steal the objective from most units.
Even without the obsec if you take custom and can boost suits to 3 model its going to be a pain to shift stealth suits with a body count of 9-12 off an objective.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 18, 2022 10:38:33 GMT -5
I gotta say, the access to all that ranged ignore invul is making me pretty nervous. I mean given what they have previewed you are going to definitely see a Bo'kan with 3x hammerhead rail and a stormsurge show up at some tournament to see if it leaf blower its way to the top with some super destructive no counterplay shots. I think the answer will be no, it won't win tournaments, BUT it will be a crazy gate keeping list as 3-3 or 4-2. The fact that you are putting a lot of pretty solid shooting 3s (with markerlights) that can re-roll on the important 5-9 shots that the units will have. Also currently, if points are to believed it will be between 765-850 points for this so there is plently of room left for troops, crisis and support. This is just going to push a lot of the bigger stuff out of the meta until it get undated, sadly I think this is going to have the largest affect on Demons, Knights/chaos knights, Nids, Ultramarine dreads, dreadknights and potentially the tau mirror match. |
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