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Post by trantos01 on Sept 18, 2022 15:56:51 GMT -5
You will NEED to know what you're facing across the table, That's true when facing just about any army. What you don't know, can kill you. Even factions that have been in play for a long time have ways of completely bending you over if you make the wrong move.
And at the end of the day, it's less about how killy an army is (though that does play a role) and more about how good they are at scoring objectives. One thing I have seen is that they apparently struggle to deal with Elder.
Either way, after next week when the boxes (hopefully) come in, we can start testing things out on the incursion scale since I think you can have about 650 points counting all the upgrades etc.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 18, 2022 16:18:52 GMT -5
Yes but unlike other armies, this one is entirely new, with several new extremely pushed interactions that no other army has.
When facing the new nids for example, leviathan is easily explained as "transhuman but for bugs". Or Tau railguns are "single shot invul ignoring anti-tank weapons"
Judgement tokens are a whole new breed of interaction that has nothing like it. Beam is so rare, you'll need to know what it does because positioning can just kill you if you aren't prepared. Void armor is armor of contempt on steroids. Someone would (rightly) assume it's just AOC... it's not, the no wound rerolls are very strong (ie: it's the baked in salamanders/sisters trait for free).
That is on top of the overall arching abilities that each differing league can take.
I would normally say with any army "you need to know X before you face it" (ie: tau - strong guns, crap melee... daemons saves you can't modify and killy monsters... etc.) LOV is the first army I'd recommend "do your homework".
There's just a lot of gotcha things in it. I'm not so worried locally because people are pretty good around here at explaining rules and not running netlists.
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Post by VaUkos on Sept 18, 2022 17:54:24 GMT -5
And other thing that Magna-rail rule is extra nasty, it has bleed over damage on it and it ignores invuls on top.
So their heavy magna cannon is basically the tau rail cannon but shorter range and different damage characteristics + another ability.
Taus rifle your guarantee a minimum of 10 damage (max 12) with 3 being mortals for one shot
Magna cannon your guarantee minimum 8 damage (max 12) no mortals but if gets a 6 on wound the left over damage bleeds over to the next model till it gets used up, not sure if auto wounds count as auto 6's for wounds, but they have an HQ once use ability to make any roll an 6.
So for me if I wanted to shoot at an infantry unit with my rail cannon I would want to use a 1 cp stratagem that does 1 mortal wound on each model on a 4+ to a max of 8 wounds. So rarely would I ever use that cannon on anything but
The magna-cannon is a whole different ball game because it does a minimum of 8 damage to max of 12 and doesn't require an roll for each model only an 6 on wound for it to happen.
And yeah the judgement tokens is going to be nasty, because our teams tournament I had my Warlord with a trait that gives the same ability as one token 6's are auto wounds but I could only give it to my one team of suits and a few of people I was facing really didn't like it when I got my 6's on hit.
Now not only is it for the whole army to get auto wounds but it goes as low as 4+'s and I haven't seen if it dissappears like markerlights when an unit shoots at that marked unit or at the end of the shooting phase, so I'm going to assume it doesn't dissappear till the end of that turn.
But I'm definitely looking forward to fighting this army but I'm also concerned because they do shooting better than tau, they have melee capabilities plus survivability and can maybe out damage tau they are only slow as far as I see.
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Post by LizardTau on Sept 18, 2022 17:57:19 GMT -5
Yes their auto wounds count as 6's to wound. also their tokens do not disappear even if the model leaves the table and comes back
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Post by VaUkos on Sept 18, 2022 18:04:49 GMT -5
Is the spooky faction also dropping during spooky month too to make them extra spooky?
Well hopefully I can snipe them off before I get into shooting distance and maybe less ML drones
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Sept 18, 2022 19:14:23 GMT -5
Maybe a bit pushed lol. A little sad to see how classic wargear profiles are increasingly left in the dust as time goes on and better versions of essentially the same thing with no tradeoffs displace them, but that's how she goes I guess.
The real interesting thing is going to be seeing what GW can do to reign in some of the more egregious stuff. They're wide on strengths and narrow on weaknesses so what's the go to- points increases? Taking away core? Decreasing mobility even further? Nerfing judgement tokens? I'm curious to see, assuming the predictions are accurate and they're extremely powerful out of the gate (Wings has a pretty good feel for this stuff so I'm betting they will be)
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Post by raceygaming on Sept 18, 2022 19:28:29 GMT -5
Maybe a bit pushed lol. A little sad to see how classic wargear profiles are increasingly left in the dust as time goes on and better versions of essentially the same thing with no tradeoffs displace them, but that's how she goes I guess. The real interesting thing is going to be seeing what GW can do to reign in some of the more egregious stuff. They're wide on strengths and narrow on weaknesses so what's the go to- points increases? Taking away core? Decreasing mobility even further? Nerfing judgement tokens? I'm curious to see, assuming the predictions are accurate and they're extremely powerful out of the gate (Wings has a pretty good feel for this stuff so I'm betting they will be) I think you are gonna be looking at harlequins levels of reworks. They had rules just re-written to stop how strong they were. I think they are going to have to do away with the auto hits count as 6s... it's too much. Either your hits bypass the wound roll or you get cool affects...you don't get both
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Post by kaelon on Sept 18, 2022 22:51:29 GMT -5
Thing I'm wondering about is what happens with the judgement tokens if I kill something from inside of a transport, would the transport get the token or would the guy inside take it?
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 18, 2022 23:14:30 GMT -5
Thing I'm wondering about is what happens with the judgement tokens if I kill something from inside of a transport, would the transport get the token or would the guy inside take it? Well here's what I can find in the relevant section of the codex: -If a unit kills a LoV unit, they get a judgement token.
-If a unit with judgement token is removed from the battlefield (goes into a transport, into strategic reserves etc) make a note of any judgement tokens they have and when they re-enter the battlefield, place the appropriate number of JT beside them. So JT doesn't vanish when you leave the board.
There isn't anything specific about units firing from inside transports etc but going by the existing rules, you kill a LoV unit and it doesn't matter where you are or what you're in; you get a JT.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 19, 2022 16:48:47 GMT -5
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 19, 2022 17:51:16 GMT -5
I fully intend to not bring the Greater Thorian League or Ûthar outside of club champ style games (well and/or games practicing for CC).
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Sept 19, 2022 19:02:01 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever seen such an angry Hammer of Math lol
The timing here is fortunate for Kingston since if they really turn out as OP as they sound they should be nerfed before club champs roll around
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 19, 2022 19:08:35 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever seen such an angry Hammer of Math lol
The timing here is fortunate for Kingston since if they really turn out as OP as they sound they should be nerfed before club champs roll around
Doesn't GW use the big official tournaments etc as a proverbial review board in regards to balancing factions? How many are there going to be held between now and CC? Also they might hold off on things until all the models of the faction are released.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Sept 19, 2022 19:16:28 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever seen such an angry Hammer of Math lol
The timing here is fortunate for Kingston since if they really turn out as OP as they sound they should be nerfed before club champs roll around
Doesn't GW use the big official tournaments etc as a proverbial review board in regards to balancing factions? How many are there going to be held between now and CC? Also they might hold off on things until all the models of the faction are released. Eh, sometimes. They also balance on community feedback and reaction. And 40k is a popular competitive game, there's notable events going on all over the place year round these days.
Sigmar not too long ago had a huge outcry about a new release that was obviously broken to the point no testing was needed and they pre-nerfed the unit after the rules were available but before the model shipped.
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Post by VaUkos on Sept 20, 2022 2:30:32 GMT -5
Well sadly looks like what I said was correct, all I know now is if I see anything with a magna-cannon I need to delete it off the board asap specially since it can kill three of my suits like nothing (hopefully it wont be hard to kill) and the rifle is 2nd priority, also I don't think I will be pick this army up anytime soon till they get nerfed acouple times.
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