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Post by raceygaming on Sept 20, 2022 7:36:05 GMT -5
I'm going to be the Debbie downer here and say that GW is hoping for a strong Q4 and Voltaan being a new faction means big sales (plus Xmas bundles).
I know the Art of War team was more or less doing all list building planning based on mirror matches so I'm guessing they are expecting 75-80% win rate until the nerfs.
Sadly the nerfs are probably going to be pushed to new year or CA in Jan/Feb in order to give the competitive whales enough time to sink 2-3k into the army before nerfs and let the meta players really get in. On the flip side in March there might be a great 2nd hand market for Voltaan as the most broken/spammable lists will need to ditch models
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Post by brujonation on Sept 20, 2022 8:33:31 GMT -5
I'm going to be the Debbie downer here and say that GW is hoping for a strong Q4 and Voltaan being a new faction means big sales (plus Xmas bundles). I know the Art of War team was more or less doing all list building planning based on mirror matches so I'm guessing they are expecting 75-80% win rate until the nerfs. Sadly the nerfs are probably going to be pushed to new year or CA in Jan/Feb in order to give the competitive whales enough time to sink 2-3k into the army before nerfs and let the meta players really get in. On the flip side in March there might be a great 2nd hand market for Voltaan as the most broken/spammable lists will need to ditch models this is what I figure too. I'm not gonna get riled up over it, the new ay with new rules, it will break the meta, but rules are changing/updating (now more so than ever) so once the new hotness has had thier run, things will get balanced. eventually. maybe.
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Post by question on Sept 20, 2022 13:48:36 GMT -5
As I said before, this will be the ideal "gimme money honey" situation for GW. If you are sincerely interested in the army, then I think the big box is worth investing in. I would avoid the temptation to add anything but core units to that as, like raceygaming pointed out, there may be a nice market to pick those up used in the early part of next year. It fits both the standard retail "Christmas gouge" model and how our community follows an "assess, nerf, dump" pattern of behaviour. A bit of patience can be a big money saver in this hobby.
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 20, 2022 17:09:51 GMT -5
if I see anything with a magna-cannon I need to delete it off the board asap specially since it can kill three of my suits like nothing (hopefully it wont be hard to kill) and the rifle is 2nd priority, Well baseline the Land Fortress isn't impossible to drop. T8 16 wounds and a 2+ save ignoring the first pip of AP. If you can fusion down a Land Raider, this guy isn't that much different though I can't remember to what degree shutting off reroll wounds+damage effects Tau units. The only buffs to this are one League making it T9, another giving it a 4+ invul save and the upgraded forge master being able to make one attack per battle round do zero damage.
Warriors on the other hand, it appears to be fairly easy to give them a 5+ invul against shooting so you'll want lots of S5/6 AP-2 shots. The AP is enough to make them roll on the invul and S6 means that even if they are the +1 toughness League or the Psyker is buffing them you're still wounding on 3s. And even if they are of that League and get buffed, you're wounding on 4s but at that point, probably better off shooting something squisher.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 20, 2022 18:22:03 GMT -5
if landraiders were T9 or had a 4+ invul and had tau weaponry mounted on it, you'd see a lot more of them ie: railgun hammer heads are T7 with a 3+ save and only one shot on their gun (which cannot spill over to other models). Plus no judgement tokens, hit on 4+, can't hit/autowound, can't completely shrug off an anti-tank shot back, etc. etc. etc. Goonhammer I think was right with these guys... as it currently stands 2-3 will be standard.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Sept 20, 2022 18:27:21 GMT -5
Yup, just a land raider with much MUCH better weapons, no rerolls to wound or damage (wut) potentially 4++ or t9 (sorry melta/fusion, get outta here). Same thing really.
*Edit* LMAO it's cheaper than a raider....
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 20, 2022 18:51:54 GMT -5
Really? I could have sworn there was some method to give invuls to a LR either through a pskyer power or being a particular chapter.
Though considering how cutthroat the bigger competitive tournaments can be, I'd expect the Thorian League+Ûthar showing up far more than the +1 toughness or invul crew for that auto six to hit, extra JTs etc.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Sept 20, 2022 19:17:00 GMT -5
Really? I could have sworn there was some method to give invuls to a LR either through a pskyer power or being a particular chapter. Though considering how cutthroat the bigger competitive tournaments can be, I'd expect the Thorian League+Ûthar showing up far more than the +1 toughness or invul crew for that auto six to hit, extra JTs etc. A librarian with the Librarius discipline can give out a 5++ buble with Psychic Fortress, but that is much much worse than a baked in 4++. If you don't go first, you're SOL, and there is the very real chance of failing a psychic test. If you want to really have a giggle, take a look at how much a repulsor executioner costs for no where NEAR the quality of this thing.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Sept 20, 2022 19:46:19 GMT -5
How cheap would a LR even have to be to get on this thing's level lol, like 100 points?
Not to say it isn't an egregious gap but SM vees are in general some of the weaker vehicles in the game, most of them haven't been worth a second look in years
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 20, 2022 20:01:48 GMT -5
Not to say it isn't an egregious gap but SM vees are in general some of the weaker vehicles in the game, most of them haven't been worth a second look in years I admit it's been a while but the times I've met Repulsors (the Executioner variant to be specific) I've had to go first and focus fire a lot on them or feel the pain. Because they had the fire volume to vaporize warrior blocks, tear apart destroyer groups and overwhelm Wraith invuls fairly easily.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Sept 20, 2022 20:43:06 GMT -5
they had the fire volume to vaporize warrior blocks, tear apart destroyer groups and overwhelm Wraith invuls fairly easily. While I don't want to bog down this thread in a completely off topic discussion about Necron and SM units, I'll just finish the tangent by saying I don't think any of those are particularly hard targets to scoop when you have a budget of 300 points. In fact I'm feeling pretty confident a land fortress should be able to pull it off at a premium!
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Post by kaelon on Sept 21, 2022 18:57:53 GMT -5
So with all this space dwarves being over powered, what's the best way to beat them? My harlies will have a heck of a time doing it but I think kill the characters first then play objectives while trying to take them down to a one man squad so I can get around those pesky judgement tokens
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Post by Typhus on Sept 21, 2022 19:12:06 GMT -5
Not to say it isn't an egregious gap but SM vees are in general some of the weaker vehicles in the game, most of them haven't been worth a second look in years I admit it's been a while but the times I've met Repulsors (the Executioner variant to be specific) I've had to go first and focus fire a lot on them or feel the pain. Because they had the fire volume to vaporize warrior blocks, tear apart destroyer groups and overwhelm Wraith invuls fairly easily. With no support - no Chronometron, no Techmarine, or anything - a Repulsor Executioner will kill just over 16 Necron Warriors. After Reanimation Protocols it kills just over half the unit. That's assuming every possible weapon upgrade, and running the Plasma Incinerator. The Votann Railgun can kill that many (or more) on a single 4+ to hit. And the vehicle it's mounted on is both much cheaper and more durable. Not close.
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 21, 2022 20:08:44 GMT -5
Easiest first step is making the rail cannon actually cost points. After all you have to pay 20 for each rifle in a squad, double the price of any other special weapon.
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Post by raceygaming on Sept 21, 2022 21:25:57 GMT -5
So with all this space dwarves being over powered, what's the best way to beat them? My harlies will have a heck of a time doing it but I think kill the characters first then play objectives while trying to take them down to a one man squad so I can get around those pesky judgement tokens The best thing I have seen for harlequins is to make sure EVERYTHING is hidden turn 1. Make sure to use you guys inside boat to get the killing blows so the judgement tokens are on units inside the transport not the transport itself. so shoot with transports first and finish the unit with the stuff inside. Use things like the 30" charge solitaire or death jester to try to pick off characters. make sure your bringing MSU since once a unit is in the open it is dead.
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