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Post by raceygaming on Sept 22, 2022 6:48:26 GMT -5
Take with a grain of salt but I just posted in the chat group it does look like some European tournaments will be banning Votann until they are brought in line with other codex power levels.
I guess there has been some testing based on the leaks and they are break the meta too hard for the competitive scene.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 22, 2022 7:09:05 GMT -5
I do not believe this will actually happen, at least beyond a couple of tournament organizers trying to make a point. If they never banned any of the other overtuned codex's upon release why would they now?
If you ban a codex, then you do not fall under the ITC rules so won't be done in the states or competitive tournies in North America.
Plus if LOV dominate the competitive scene utterly, then GW will nerf them before the balance slate, like they've done before.
If they wanted to ACTUALLY make a point - they would do so by NOT buying the army at all. GW only cares about sales. (as they're a publicly traded company so they have to!)
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Sept 22, 2022 7:45:25 GMT -5
I think that whole story was a bit spun out. I've heard that some european tournament circuits actually ban all codexes until the 2 week FAQ comes out, so nothing out of the ordanary here.
On paper they seem redicolous, but maybe they aren't so bad in person? That being said, usually it takes a couple weeks/months after release to really bust a codex completely open and unlock the real broken bits. People seem to be able to pick out super powered comboes even before release!
Anyways, I'll be over here fighting marines haha.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 22, 2022 8:31:55 GMT -5
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Post by voodoo on Sept 22, 2022 9:46:31 GMT -5
I also don't think that TO's of the major tournaments are dumb enough to ban LoV. It will only serve to force players away to other offerings, AND hinder the amount of data collection in regards to win/loss, list construction, etc. etc.
By "banning" the overpowered army, they'd be making it harder for GW to very glaringly see how skewed the performance of that army is within many different metas. It'll be painful to the players, but TO's have to let the cards "fall as they will" so that the data is there to facilitate the balance passes quicker.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Sept 22, 2022 10:40:31 GMT -5
I guess it depends on what your end goal is. Do you want you care about GW gathering stats or do you want your particular event to not be dominated by a new untested book? Pre-FAQ bans are already commonplace so a temporary LoV ban seems like it would basically just be a very small deviation from SOP and wouldn't be significant.
Personally if I were a TO running a major event I definitely wouldn't sacrifice it on the altar of Votann just so GW could get some free testing off it. I don't know if banning is the correct move but I don't think 'GW needs the data' is ever going to enter the calculus of anyone who actually cares about their event. I also don't think there are a lot of competitive players who aren't going to attend an event because one bleeding edge new army isn't allowed, since they all already have other armies they can play.
Basically I think a short-term bans are entirely possible just because it matters a lot less than people seem to think.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 22, 2022 11:19:54 GMT -5
If club champs was October 1st, Leagues of Voltann would still be welcome to attend. And GW certainly doesn't take any stats from my events lol There are still some local people excited about building this army, even knowing full well there'll be a nerf bat in the future. In the meantime I will still gladly play against their new cool army with the super amazing rules, and likely get stomped at least a few times because of not knowing how to counter (as it's a brand new army) but that's how we figure stuff out. Will they win every single game they play? well probably not. Will a top player playing this army have a big advantage over an opponent? Yeah probably. I don't think the impact locally will be as massive as the GT scene. Lists I've seen people excited about here seem kinda fun. We'll just have to see how it all pans out. I definitely 100% WANT to play against it though
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Sept 22, 2022 11:25:28 GMT -5
I definitely 100% WANT to play against it though I definitely want to WATCH you play against it haha
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Post by cmcd on Sept 22, 2022 11:57:06 GMT -5
I don't think the impact locally will be as massive as the GT scene. Lists I've seen people excited about here seem kinda fun. We'll just have to see how it all pans out. I definitely 100% WANT to play against it though So many beam weapons to come
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Sept 22, 2022 12:04:24 GMT -5
If club champs was October 1st, Leagues of Voltann would still be welcome to attend. And GW certainly doesn't take any stats from my events lol There are still some local people excited about building this army, even knowing full well there'll be a nerf bat in the future. In the meantime I will still gladly play against their new cool army with the super amazing rules, and likely get stomped at least a few times because of not knowing how to counter (as it's a brand new army) but that's how we figure stuff out. Will they win every single game they play? well probably not. Will a top player playing this army have a big advantage over an opponent? Yeah probably. I don't think the impact locally will be as massive as the GT scene. Lists I've seen people excited about here seem kinda fun. We'll just have to see how it all pans out. I definitely 100% WANT to play against it though That's actually exactly what I mean. The GW stats aren't going to enter into it, if they have even one player that wants to play them that's more of a reason to allow them in than some amorphous theoretical benefit GW can apply at some future date by skimming stats. Ultimately (good) TOs are going to cater to what they and their attendees want, all that other stuff is noise. I do personally think FAQ waiting periods are generally good though, GW books usually have at least a few serious bugs that are caught day 1 but need to be codified and that's usually - what a couple weeks? Shouldn't affect many events in any case.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 22, 2022 12:24:36 GMT -5
I definitely 100% WANT to play against it though I definitely want to WATCH you play against it haha I play GSC.... there's no crushing loss I can experience which I haven't already had done to me lol
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 22, 2022 18:15:18 GMT -5
Honestly the two balance changes I can see happening (though GW has surprised me in the past) would be putting a hard limit of one Kahl (the JT distributing character) per detachment. Doesn't matter if he's the regular, upgraded or the named character. You want two Kahls in an army? Make a second detachment and fork over the CP.
Second is bump up the cost of the Land Fortress (more than 250 but less than 300 I'd say) while making you pay for the rail cannon (20, 25 points).
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Post by lightcavalier on Sept 22, 2022 18:18:36 GMT -5
Part of the reasoning for the initial bans is also because half their model range literally doesn't exist at the moment....so not 100% related to power concerns
We saw the same thing happen w kill rigs when Orks came out
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Post by voodoo on Sept 29, 2022 7:28:32 GMT -5
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Post by voodoo on Sept 29, 2022 7:30:28 GMT -5
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