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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 29, 2022 7:44:44 GMT -5
that video was freaking hilarious.... (watch all the way to the end)
Points update - wow EVERY unit went up at least some amount. Should knock a few hundred points off a 2k army. the counting as an auto 6 was nonsense, I'm glad they changed that as it was WAY too much.
GW was pretty responsive to this initial feedback. Admitted they got the balance wrong, and put in a fix immediately.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 29, 2022 9:03:15 GMT -5
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 29, 2022 9:15:58 GMT -5
Holy smokes what a nerf.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Sept 29, 2022 9:32:38 GMT -5
It's Stormdrake Guard 2: Electric Boogaloo! It may be harsh but it if proves an overcorrection I'm sure they'll see rollbacks in the future, they want to sell kits after all.
Just like in Sigmar I think this is good, nerfing new stuff is like ripping off a bandaid. It's painful no matter what better to get it out of the way fast and move forward from there.
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Post by raceygaming on Sept 29, 2022 10:36:08 GMT -5
And the winner of FAQ that surprised no one.... VOTANN!!!!
I will say I did not expect a point jump this early. I figured they would match the most broken mechanics and just let people have crazy big armies to sell more models for 3-4 months.
I actually really like the balance mechanic. You can still judgement token a unit to get around the Toughness and try to drown it in saves OR you can use re-rolls and other mechanics to fish for 6s to trigger super tough attacks BUT YOU DON"T GET BOTH!!!
Happy to see between the leaks and play testing for the last 3 weeks they saw there was a pretty major issue and dealt with it quickly. I will say I wish this was caught a little earlier since it does kinda suck when you now have a sweet collectors codex and its out of date 3 days later, just a bit of a sour taste.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 29, 2022 10:45:39 GMT -5
it does kinda suck when you now have a sweet collectors codex and its out of date 3 days later, just a bit of a sour taste. For the record, this is partly why I would really love to see digital-edition-only option via the app. Like, do I really have to buy a book for the code in it when that's all I want? I'd literally still be willing to buy a digital-only codex if it was the same price as the book. Bit of a tangent here, but lets face it, Votann isn't the only book this year/edition to have the printed book be out of date nearly immediately.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 29, 2022 11:03:45 GMT -5
yeah if the app consistently worked that'd be a great idea lol.
I'm glad they're going full online with points though. That is very helpful.
Looking at the book more indepth now, and it's going to be a pretty interesting army on the table, now that it's been reigned in quite a bit. It's still a strong army, there's no doubt about that, but this nerf and every unit increasing in points right away by that much is going to make it a lot less oppressive.
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 29, 2022 18:33:58 GMT -5
20 point increase on the Champion? Guess they considered him extra scary. Though I'm surprised at the flat increase for the Land Fortress instead of a lesser increase and making the rail cannon cost points. The Thunderkyn....I don't think I'm going to bother picking up any now. 120 points at minimum when I could instead take the Sagitaur that is a lot more mobile etc. On the other hand, conversion beamers can bring the pain; particulary with that strat. Will have to do testing.
Meanwhile the Hearthguard are a pretty big investment now. 45 points per model and 5 models at minimum is (I think) a bit more than a Deathwing Knights squad and only the leader has an invul unless you go Ymyr (grants 4+ invul for 2+ save units).
As for the change to JT, I don't really mind it that much. The rail cannon is an anti-tank/monster weapon and there wound spillover doesn't apply. I'd only be shooting that at infantry etc when I don't have any better options. And looking through the stratagems, the only one that is nerfed by the JT change is the one where ion weapons cause a mortal wound in addition to their damage on a six to wound.
Going to have to crunch some numbers to see what I'd loose from my prototype list.
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Post by cmcd on Sept 30, 2022 0:52:55 GMT -5
I’m disappointed by there decision. Auto wounding on 4+ Makes it really hard to wound on 6’s. it discourages using judgment tokens. I thought it would be better that only with 3 judgment tokens you auto wounds count as 6s .
And a blanket point increase feels like they have no idea what they’re doing. Or what each unit is capable of.
Meh.
Less models for me to paint I guess.
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Post by sean on Sept 30, 2022 6:59:30 GMT -5
I’m very happy they made the corrections, and Votan still looks incredibly strong, it’s jus no longer making pre-nerf Tyrnaids jealous.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the balance data slate. If the top factions get knocked down or the bottom ones are raised up.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 30, 2022 8:19:40 GMT -5
I'm thinking that this will still be an army that is quite strong, just not able to abuse the Judgement token mechanic - however this ability is STILL strong, just not oppressively so.
The batreps I saw before this change looked primarily pretty one sided (although the ones with the army box only were pretty close). We all want a balanced and fun game right?
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Sept 30, 2022 9:48:52 GMT -5
The judgement token mechanic was so degenerate in its other form and completely shut down essentially one of the only reliable defensive tools left in 40k. I didn't expect them to change it that fast but it's for the best they did. As for point increases, I don't think they had much of a choice- they can't really go digging in and manually adjusting every datasheet and mechanic in a codex that just got dropped, that would feel even worse to people who actually paid for one to play the army. If the point nerfs do prove to be too extreme (I'm skeptical the math on nearly every LoV unit was absolutely bananas) not only will they likely see buffs but they're such a new army they'll be enjoying an ongoing release rotation to fill gaps. I don't think LoV players are going to have much to worry about, they'll just have to work harder for those podium spots
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Post by cmcd on Sept 30, 2022 11:26:07 GMT -5
I’m disappointed by there decision. Auto wounding on 4+ Makes it really hard to wound on 6’s. it discourages using judgment tokens. I thought it would be better that only with 3 judgment tokens you auto wounds count as 6s . And a blanket point increase feels like they have no idea what they’re doing. Or what each unit is capable of. Meh. Less models for me to paint I guess. I think I am just sour with how quick it came out. I agree that a change was needed. It just feels rushed, and placating to a bigger issue. It just doesn’t feel like their fix solves the problem and they’ll have to fix it again in a month. But by the time all the fixes are done, I’ll just need a new codex cause nothing in the codex will be the same.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Sept 30, 2022 12:15:37 GMT -5
I’m disappointed by there decision. Auto wounding on 4+ Makes it really hard to wound on 6’s. it discourages using judgment tokens. I thought it would be better that only with 3 judgment tokens you auto wounds count as 6s . And a blanket point increase feels like they have no idea what they’re doing. Or what each unit is capable of. Meh. Less models for me to paint I guess. I think I am just sour with how quick it came out. I agree that a change was needed. It just feels rushed, and placating to a bigger issue. It just doesn’t feel like their fix solves the problem and they’ll have to fix it again in a month. But by the time all the fixes are done, I’ll just need a new codex cause nothing in the codex will be the same. Hey I agree with the underlying thesis here but that's just kinda how 9th edition rolls. There's a pretty deep pool of codexes with this exact issue, it's an inescapable side effect of iterative rules tweaks unfortunately. On the plus side if AoS is any indicator you may very well have a new codex in the next couple years! Consider that in 24 months your current book may very well be missing most of the range. That's what happened with the new high elves and so they got a cleanup 1.5 army book within the same edition cycle. I can't remember if I said anything else but uh... yeah
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Post by distractedcarnifex on Sept 30, 2022 16:30:11 GMT -5
Boy, that escalated quickly.
In all seriousness, I hope this is not a downer for our Votann folks who took the plunge. I am looking forward to seeing those armies on the table - good thing someone bought the last box while I was playing last week or I might have fallen! Too many projects as it is...
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