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Post by Typhus on Apr 12, 2022 23:07:48 GMT -5
I will add, that if supreme commanders WERE to be allowed, that's the end of the boss fight final game. it's just not fair to pit Morty vs. Tigirus or... any surpreme commander vs. a regular normal special character. To play devil's adovcate - is it fair to pit Tigurius vs Be'lakor? Or the Avatar of Khaine? Supreme Commander doesn't make much sense as a restriction, to me - Belisarius Cawl and Shadowsun are de facto banned because of it, while the likes of Trajann Valoris and The Swarmlord are allowed because they don't have it (for some reason). I think it would be better to have a community banlist of characters that are considered too strong - or else just ban Lords of War, and have that be the end of it. The other option is to restrict detachments.. No super heavy aux and no super heavy and no supreme command detachments. This would keep all low and strong commanders out. Just a thought Extremely good solution. |
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Post by mrmanstory on Apr 13, 2022 0:50:31 GMT -5
I actually didn't know cawl had the Supreme commander keyword until typhus pointed it out. Do admech have something else I have to take if I wanna bring them? From what I gather from the codex I have no other named characters I can bring. I also agree with the option to just say no Supreme command Detachment.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 13, 2022 6:20:49 GMT -5
To play devil's adovcate - is it fair to pit Tigurius vs Be'lakor? Or the Avatar of Khaine? Supreme Commander doesn't make much sense as a restriction, to me - Belisarius Cawl and Shadowsun are de facto banned because of it, while the likes of Trajann Valoris and The Swarmlord are allowed because they don't have it (for some reason). I think it would be better to have a community banlist of characters that are considered too strong - or else just ban Lords of War, and have that be the end of it. Yeah that's kinda my point in my follow up post... there are several characters which are pretty over the top now, and comparable to supreme commander level (Avatar, Belakor, Trajann etc.) that make it weird for me personally to say "oh cawl is too much but Belakor is A-OK" Swarmlord losing double move and his 3++ in combat may arguably make him weaker, but he'll still utterly destroy Adrax for example with little effort. It's difficult to balance the narrative friendly tournament anymore. It used to be "no FW, no Titanic, no LOW" and that covered mostly everything that is busted. 9th just is a different animal now. My worry is dropping restrictions just makes things go sideways and loses that friendly vibe.... and keeping restrictions just means Avatars run rampant (for example.... lol I think maybe two of us own swarmlord and Belakor) |
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Post by connor on Apr 13, 2022 7:24:40 GMT -5
I think I'll vote no restrictions. The line between knights and what is actually broken is too small. Id rather play against all kniggts then harlies, custodes or Tau right now
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Post by raceygaming on Apr 13, 2022 10:10:36 GMT -5
I think I'll vote no restrictions. The line between knights and what is actually broken is too small. Id rather play against all kniggts then harlies, custodes or Tau right now I am hoping that before April 30th we see a balance update that will help curb some of the most over tuned models in harlies, custodes and tau but I do think your sentiment is correct. This is more out of ignorance but can chaos knights even play this event? I know the imperials have Canis Rex ( just awful) but I didn't think there was a named commander on the Chaos side. |
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Post by LizardTau on Apr 13, 2022 11:36:48 GMT -5
Restrictions are difficult to balance.
Either there are going to be some non offenders caught in the restrictions, or it will be a lot of work.
Like the most fair would be the hardest to go as it would be everyone pre submitting their list for approval. But that would take a lot of time as well as who would be the judge on if it's too strong or not.
As for no restrictions, in a perfect world it would be this. As its fun and everyone would talk about what they are bringing. But every year I've played people are always like, "oh someone brought such and such to a fun tournament"
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 13, 2022 13:46:31 GMT -5
Oh nothing gets you labelled as "that guy" quicker than bringing a netlist to crusade or Santa lol
Maybe I should just trust everyone will use restraint on their own for this one?
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Post by mrmanstory on Apr 13, 2022 16:00:05 GMT -5
Oh nothing gets you labelled as "that guy" quicker than bringing a netlist to crusade or Santa lol Maybe I should just trust everyone will use restraint on their own for this one? We could make a thread for people to post their lists if they want. Like what was done with club Champs. That was if anyone wants to know if their list is "too much" it let's the community give imput. |
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Apr 13, 2022 17:59:11 GMT -5
I don't know if getting mushed by Mortarion feels that different than getting mushed by a swarm lord. Gettin' mushed regardless  |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 13, 2022 20:35:32 GMT -5
swarmlord got quite a bit worse... I'm having a hard time justifying putting him in a list over a regular hive tyrant who outperforms him every test I've done.
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Post by LizardTau on Apr 14, 2022 6:13:22 GMT -5
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 14, 2022 6:16:02 GMT -5
Have your say in the poll while you still can... decision to be made Friday morning as I have to have the details to Mike before Saturday.
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Post by question on Apr 14, 2022 10:37:16 GMT -5
Sad to say but no restrictions in a "friendly" tournament seems to increase the likelihood of "that guy" showing up in my experience. Still, we can hope for the best if you are so inclined to vote for no restrictions. Personally, I will vote for some.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Apr 14, 2022 11:22:50 GMT -5
Could we have some restrictions with the option of asking permission? For example, if I wanted to bring Gabriel Angelos, but we ban FW. He is an all around middling character that doesn't do anything more for my army than a bog standard chapter Master. If not, I can I proxy him for the much better Marneus Calgar?  |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 14, 2022 11:52:17 GMT -5
I've actually been convinced forge world should be okay... especially if supreme command / titanic are still gone.
I can't really think of any non-knight forgeworld units that are massively better than regular stuff in the dex now.
Like Gabriel is a good example... why on earth should he be restricted but the Avatar isn't?
I'm NOT convinced that supreme command detachments and Titanic should be allowed. I've yet to see any point yet that convinces me on that at all. (quite the opposite in fact)
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