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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 13, 2023 6:41:01 GMT -5
As always, we can houserule something. ie: maximum of 6 mortals cap was put in place for the Karskins before GW did it.
Can do that again if needed. (ie: if this stuff becomes a problem). Would easily put this in place for tournaments if this is necessary.
Luckily I find locally we don't generally find these things to be a problem because people on their own just don't want to be "that guy".
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 13, 2023 6:48:39 GMT -5
Ya sorry, my post was not ment to be like " check out the new hotness" it was that GW has made an oversight in rule interactions that can be be used in a simple combo or can be taken to an extrem.
The hellfire (anti-X) when combo's with a devastating weapon (6s to mortals) is too much when you get into weight of fire.
I think you are also going to see this to a less extent with greyfax joining any imperial unit and giving it anti-pysker 4+. 9 stern+greyfax in a drop pod could be in any marine list and will pick up any unit with the psyker keyword.
I am really hoping that GW can fix this with a change from ANTI-X - rolls count as critical hits to - rolls count as successful wound. It breaks the interaction while keeping the intent, while still letting lucky 6s do a bit of extra damage.
Units like talos and knights valiant that had the interaction baked into a weapon get points adjusted to fit.
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 13, 2023 7:53:04 GMT -5
I'm sure there will be some faqs. Cause technically rules as written anything with -1 damage would be immune to that stern guard thing since the attack gets -1 damage so it would be 0 damage turned into mortals. Ya for some reason in the core rules they don't seem to address the issue that they did in EVERY OTHER edition, Rounding and Damage reduction to a minimum of 1. I assume they are going to put out a catch all that they have always used - Round up to the closest whole number and damage is reduced to a minimum of 1. They also in the mortal wound section at least, worded that mortals spill over from model to model but no mention like in 9th where mortal wounds can not be reduced, as in 9th they were dealt one point after another. It feels like some assumptions have been made but ya it feel a bit like they were lazy to put in 1-2 sentences to clarify. Now on the flip side maybe the reason they took away -1 damage from so much stuff is to make it super rare so they can not have a minimum... until June 24th and the FAQ no one but the designers can say for sure.
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 13, 2023 9:00:20 GMT -5
While looking at the key words I wanted to see if there are any other great combos:
Anti-X + devastating wounds = Game breaking combo, turns the roll of a X+ into a critical which when some things trigger on 2+. "rolling" 30 6s is overpowered so it turns out
Sustained + Anti -X = very good, get extra hits and those hit are more likely to wound.
Sustained + Devastating = very good, get extra hits and those hits can become mortals with a lucky 6.
Sustained + Lethal = good , extra hits get added to the wound rolls and those 6s also auto wound. make sure to keep track of each 6 you take out as auto wound put the right amount of sustained hits back in.
Lethal + Devastating = bad. No interaction, any 6s rolled to hit auto wound and are removed from the wound pool where you can roll 6s for mortals.
Devastating + Precision = Bad. No interaction, any 6s rolled to wound become mortals AND the attack ends and skips the allocation step. Devastating DO NOT get to be allocated to the character.
Precision + Lethal = fair, Auto wounds that can be allowed to characters might be good vs squishy guys.
Precision + Sustained = fair , extra hits that can be put on character, try to get that weight of dice.
Twin-linked + devastating = Good , Re-roll those wounds to fish for 6s to get the mortals. Helps make it more then luck.
I might be missing some combos here but I tried to cover what might be the most common in the game. If there is an obvious one I have missed let me know.
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Post by Casper on Jun 13, 2023 11:10:01 GMT -5
As a new Daemons Slaanesh player - I'm very happy with how the datasheets for Slaanesh units look.
Shalaxi is a monster with 20 wounds, 4+ Invul and 5+ FNP with reroll everything against monsters, vehicles and characters. Precision on their primary melee attack means no character is safe with 6 attacks and strength 14. That should decimate leaders in units.
Keeper is super tanky with 18 wounds and the 4+ Invul and 5+ FNP. And buffs Slaanesh units with an extra pip of AP. Seems good.
I'm glad that Slaanesh doesn't seem to just fast but paper-thin anymore.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jun 13, 2023 12:39:04 GMT -5
Honestly this interaction just really highlights why the data card system will be great.
Anti itself isn't necessarily the problem, it's the infantry keyword.
The combo is depending on like 4 things all interacting in a chain, and the game balance team can poke any one of them and it collapses.
We also don't have points, for all we know that weapon is 20 points a model on top of model cost.
Finally, coming from an infantry heavy edition, we're used to vehicles and transports not really being a thing. Yeah those hellfire rounds are devastating, but they literally bound off a rhino with 6s to wound, they also don't touch bikers, calvary, or even swarms.
Is this something that should be nerfed? Probably. But it's a very niche and specific weapon that might not be the world ender we think it is until we have all the puzzle pieces.
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 14, 2023 8:45:28 GMT -5
They already fixed hell fire rounds
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drew
Warrior
Posts: 280
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Post by drew on Jun 14, 2023 8:47:57 GMT -5
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 14, 2023 8:48:28 GMT -5
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 14, 2023 9:02:37 GMT -5
Digital rules are awesome
Now let's hope they don't pull an N2/3 Infinty and change things every 5 minutes without telling anyone
Nothing like needing to re check your army day of to make sure it wasn't different than yesterday
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jun 14, 2023 9:40:16 GMT -5
It does take the wind out of datacard sales, that's for sure haha
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Post by voodoo on Jun 14, 2023 10:20:40 GMT -5
Sustained + Torrent also looks like another non-interaction. No rolling to hit means no chances of scoring 6's. Unless you have the opportunity to pick up a die for each "auto hit" to try hunting for 6's, but I highly doubt it.
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Post by Casper on Jun 14, 2023 16:13:02 GMT -5
Sustained + Torrent also looks like another non-interaction. No rolling to hit means no chances of scoring 6's. Unless you have the opportunity to pick up a die for each "auto hit" to try hunting for 6's, but I highly doubt it. I may be mistaken but from what I've seen any weapon with torrent doesn't have a ballistic skill - so I think you're right that you can't roll.
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Post by trantos01 on Jun 14, 2023 17:13:47 GMT -5
IG enginseers can hand out a 4+ invul to a vehicle in the command phase while healing it d3. -headdesks- I can see the new meta of taking the biggest nastiest tanks you can and having that guy hide in it's shadow. Have fun pounding through a couple of baneblades with 4+ invuls. Meanwhile Manticores are going to be pure hell looking at the profile of those rockets.
Huh, Saint Celistine can be tossed into Seraphim or Zephyrim squads and she can deep strike. At least now she's an anti-infantry/elite unit instead of 'kill everything'. As for the rest of the SoB, I think they're going to be an army that will struggle against and similar heavy units unless they use lots of miracle dice. Because the strongest 'standard' weapon I can see in the index is S10 (on the Mortifier, Penitent engine, Exorcist, and Castigator battle cannon). They don't have anything that naturally wounds T12 and T14 models on 4s or 3s.
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drew
Warrior
Posts: 280
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Post by drew on Jun 15, 2023 8:19:59 GMT -5
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