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Post by fritzthedwarf on Mar 23, 2012 12:20:01 GMT -5
Shannon, I agree that you can have a fun game even if it is a disaster. And that a WAAC gamer might not provide a fun gaming experience (depends on the game of course - no absolutes on either side). I just prefer not having a system that combines 'fun game' with sportsmanship, in case the too are separate.
I would agree that any dex in the right hands can do well at tourneys, but I think the information on the net about tourneys and personal experiences clearly show that some dexes with certain lists have strong advantages over some other armies. The question is whether comp can adequately balance a game that GW does not spend a lot of effort trying to balance. Or whether it might be better to drop comp altogether which was your point I believe and with which I agree. Its whether it can be reasonably done - which is difficult.
Didn't fantasy have attempts at comp last edition in some of the big tourneys such as letting some armies take 'X' hundred more points to try to mitigate the differences between army books?
With the style of tourney that you ran (and again kudos for a job well done!) where everyone still has a shot a prizes anyways I don't think comp adds anything.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 23, 2012 12:53:47 GMT -5
Fantasy used to comp with "tier" system, allowing some armies to get a certain amount of extra points as to whether they were tier 1, 2, 3... but 7th edition fantasy was horribly unbalanced, where a number of books just didn't even get brought to a tourney (ogres, tomb kings, wood elves) because they were just so bad off... 8th edition did alot to balance things out (although it's not perfect by any means, but it's definitely not a case where you bring either one of four armies (daemons, vamps, dark elves, lizardmen) or auto-lose anymore!
and this big correction came from change over to the new edition - as only one of those top armies have gotten a new book this edition!
5th ed 40k is far more balanced than what happened with fantasy in my opinion... a problem ironically enough caused in large part by the last fantasy book Matt Ward was allowed to write - Daemons of Chaos.
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Post by thesanityassassin on Mar 23, 2012 13:58:50 GMT -5
I think I can agree with what Shannon is saying about not using comp....I tried for many years to try and get one that worked, but none of them seemed to be just right....and that was before some of the 5th ed books gave the boosts that they did.
My only fear is that regardless of what is said about "Friendly lists and creative scenarios" there is always going to be SOMEONE, and I'm certainly not pointing at anyone in particular here, who decides that "no comp" means "bring leafblower or purifier spam or GTFO". I don't know how to handle such things...
I wonder if a small comp score done by the opponent is still the best option, just done BEFORE the game rather than after....exchange lists, rate them 1-4 or something, THEN play, so you don't get the "Oh, I lost so they get 1"
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Post by fritzthedwarf on Mar 23, 2012 16:47:02 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of each player providing a comp score for the other guys army because it can be so subjective and each person has such a varied knowledge of all the other dexes. I do agree that if you have one that it is done before the game to avoid the "he tabled me - comp 0!" type problem but I can easily see people forgetting and doing it after (how do you police something like this). Plus to rate the other army properly might require a little more time examining the opponents lists in detail to know what all the rules and units do so you can try to make a reasonable judgement.
Also, in a tournament whether a comp score is used or not some nasty lists are going to show up that with a good general are going to stomp many of the other lists (wacky unknown scenarios aside that might dramatically effect one army more than another). A tournament is normally a competition and viewed as such by most players, IMO, with players trying to win, regardless that their list might not be optimal or their skills not great. If a tournament is to be a friendly tournament (by that I mean people not bringing the crushing lists and using less optimal units, not spamming, etc) then it needs to be clearly identified that way and perhaps comp or something else done to deal with the brutal lists. But I see this type of tournament as the exception and not what I think most players would expect out of a regular tournament.
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Post by danydaigle24 on Mar 23, 2012 17:53:20 GMT -5
Yeah I think you are right Mark... Lets hope people will bring rough but nice list to play against... in the tournament I saw rough list but all my game were nice
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