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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 2, 2012 9:32:50 GMT -5
whoops... I should have clarified the reasons why I'm not a fan of jaws... too situational, too random... wheras divination is ALWAYS useful....
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 2, 2012 9:43:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm thinking it's option every game I have to make the choice, TL FRFSRF is amazing especially with 24 lasguns, as are some of the other Div powers, but Jaws does provide some serious utility, and would make most Monstrous Creatures cry.
I'm actually really leaning towards trying out the 2nd list, as it's extremely mobile, and has serious firepower. The only thing I question is it's survivability.
The Blob has to rely on moving into cover to stay alive, when sitting in the aegis they become a "don't come within 24" of me" threat like a land raider, except for the fact they can't move. With this blob it's much more of a get stuck in blob, they are more than willing to charge forward and get stuck in with all the embedded power weapons, grenades and high leadership. I'm thinking they might need a 4th squad to be large enough to survive, but finding yet another 65 points would be incredibly difficult.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 2, 2012 9:57:18 GMT -5
.....and Jaws vs. monstrous creatures leaves the same taste in my mouth as warp quake vs. daemons.
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Post by danydaigle24 on Dec 2, 2012 9:59:18 GMT -5
what do you think of cutting the cavalry to get your points
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 2, 2012 10:10:29 GMT -5
Well, what I mean is I'm able to keep codex powers if I need them, but swap out to Div for the most part. Honestly I'm a big fan of the Chooser/LL combo, but I get 2 powers and honestly, there's nothing else really that good in the SW dex.
I really need the TWC as combat support for the Grey Hunters, anything actually meant to fight in combat can kill off GH easily, and people aren't going to charge Grey Hunters unless they think they can beat them.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 2, 2012 10:25:36 GMT -5
do you think that if you retooled your list, your original idea of the wolf lord would work better if he had a thunder wolf cav escort? He'd be alot more survivable than running around on his lonesome, still give you the combat punch you'd need, but not just hit and die like you've been finding?
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 2, 2012 10:50:05 GMT -5
The problem comes in that in order to get the TWC into the list as an escort, something else has to drop. I originally tried to build a Mephiston-like wrecking ball, but found out that big hero characters are actually wrecking scalpels, which was the opposite of what I thought I was building around.
I'll see what can be done to grab 2 or 3 TWC as an escort, But I get the feeling it will be impossible to get it in without dropping something.
EDIT:
So basically, I have a choice to make. If I drop the Aegis Line, and turn the blob into a midfield blob (Flamers, Kraks, Axes), I can fit in 2 naked TWC as an escort. But that leaves me 0 flyer defense, and nerfs my mid strength output by quite a bit (10 less Str 7 shots per turn).
I could also stick with a shooty blob, and swap the Kraks back to Autocannons, and the Flamers for a Dozer Blade on the PCS Chimera and a WTT (5+ DTW) on the Lord.
There's just no way with how expensive the TWC Lord is that I can fit in both a TWC escort and Flyer Defense.
I could always drop some of the Lords tools, but most of his points cost is in wargear he needs to survive in combat with other big nastys like Warbosses and the like.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 2, 2012 10:56:21 GMT -5
probably not worth it then for the escort... can't have everything right?
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 2, 2012 11:19:26 GMT -5
Well, another option would be instead of going for max Str 10 attacks and Survivability, would be to go for a blender lord.
Idea 1) Blender Lord
Dual Wolf Claws, Belt of Russ, Mount and Bear.
Comes in 30 points cheaper, but dies to torrent even easier, and if I take runic armour and the necklace so I never worry about WS he's the same cost.
Idea 2) Dismounted Lord
Retool the list similar to my vendetta/runepriest version, but put a Wolf Lord in the Blob instead of a Rune Priest.
Comes in at 225, and nothing will want to fight the blob in Combat. but the extra price of the Lord over a Priest means the TWC must be dropped, since without an Aegis the Vendetta must be taken. Leaving the GH without combat support.
EDIT:
After some serious playing with Army Builder, I've decided I can wait until I build my wolves into a full army to pursue this TWC Lord idea. I should be able to make it work in a full 2k SW list easily.
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Post by harryf on Dec 3, 2012 10:07:19 GMT -5
what are the rules regarding wolf standard?
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 3, 2012 10:15:11 GMT -5
Very simply, it's 1 use per game, and the turn you use it you get to reroll any 1's during that turns entire assault phase. (Overwatch shots, to-hit, to-wound, ld tests, pretty much any time you roll a 1 except for when taking saves)
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Post by harryf on Dec 3, 2012 10:15:56 GMT -5
I see what was the thing that gave you counter attack?
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 3, 2012 10:32:35 GMT -5
No, all Space Wolves switch their Combat Tactics rule for Counter Attack and Acute Senses, as per their chapter tactics in the codex. (both rules are USRs and can be found in the BRB)
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 9, 2012 21:38:26 GMT -5
So, after the tournament I learned a couple things
1) Aegis is hurting me terribly, if the blob had been moving foward, all 3 games it would of claimed objectives, avoided threats, and actually shot more than it's autocannons.
2) TWC Lord can work, but if hes alone, he's not worth it. For his price I can get 5 regular TWC, who won't get bogged down by millions of fearless troops. He needs to be instant-killing important things to be worth it, and he doesn't have the ability to avoid chaff.
3) PCS with melta and a chimera is just to short ranged and not mobile enough to apply it.
4) Heavy Flamers on my Russes instead of Heavy Bolters are worth their weight in gold, especially when you are shooting at cheap troops in cover. This also applies to some of my other troops, having some flamers in my list will really help clear out troops, as always having to blast through cover saves with weight of fire sucks.
5) MCs are still a big problem for me, I need to ensure all my infantry are equipped with Krak grenades.
6) The Blob needs a second Character attached that can confer good leadership, so that my commissar can't simply be challenged out, as hes not that durable.
And so I present, the re-tooled list:
Rune Priest - Warlord, Chooser, Jaws, LL (In blob, will typically swap for Divination rolls.)
2x Rifleman Dread
3x 10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasma, Standard, Rhino with Dozer
3x Thunderwolf Calvary - 1x Thunderhammer, 2x Melta Bombs
Lord Commissar - Power Axe (In Blob)
Infantry Platoon PCS - 3x Flamers, Vox Caster (In Vendetta) 30x Combined Squad - Vox, 3x Flamer, Krak Grenades, 3x Sarges with Power Axes
Vendetta - 3x TL Lascannon
2x Leman Russ - Demolisher Cannon, Heavy Flamer
I debated moving the 2 melta bombs on the TWC to the Blob, just in case they get tank shocked, but the TWC being able to simply destroy a tank before it gets there probably negates that.
I'm a little bit sad I couldn't get the TWC Lord to work in this list, but I will simply build out the SW into a full army while I wait for the Eldar codex to get updated. I'm sure with an extra 800 points I can find a way to fit him in and make him work.
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Post by Hizack on Dec 10, 2012 0:24:40 GMT -5
Well, remember that you can hide your Commissar so he wont be challenged when you charge, or get charged with the blob until the next round of close combat. Might want to hide a sergeant or other unique/character model with him so they can take the first challenge or two before you get down to the Commissar.
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