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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 19, 2012 10:33:19 GMT -5
I really shouldn't surf models at work.... because it got me thinking about Urien Rakarth, Haemonculi, Wracks, Grotesques, and Talos pain engines. sure it'd be expensive, but it'd be creepy and cool looking... however I have absolutely no idea if a twisted Frankenstein list would be viable, or just something that lumbers forwards for a turn and gets shot off the board... I haven't seen any dark eldar players here or in any tournaments I've gone to out of town, ever run a list like this... somehow that gives me the impression this would be bad... like horribly, awfully bad... and yes, part of me just doesn't want to expand my small grey knight force, trade the models away and work on something else that isn't a space marine... lol..... so all you dark eldar players and other players in general who know such tactical things.... thoughts?  |
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Post by redshirt2375 on Dec 19, 2012 10:40:36 GMT -5
I think the problem with the "Coven" lists is they lack any kind of long-range shooting (other than on any Vehicles and the Talos/Cronos) and all the models have only a 6+SV combined with 5+ FnP.
The HQs don't get access to any armour that would improve their saves in any way, and a lot of the Special Gear is pretty expensive pointswise and the best ones are usually 1 use only.
They do have access to all the "Test or Remove from play" toys
Grotesques also suffer from having to have an IC attached or else they could potentially go berserk and die, or if you want them on a Raider.
It would be a tough army to remove, but not impossible. Plus if you do get too close they can field a lot of Liquifier guns which could potentially take out entire units if you get lucky and roll the AP1/2
Personally I think the army would look great on the table when painted up (especially all the new models) but from a competitive stand point it doesn't do that well.
If FnP was still a 4+ it would be a lot better
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 19, 2012 21:08:56 GMT -5
HQ:
Urien Rakarth
Haemonculus: agonizer, liquifier gun, stinger pistol, archangel of pain
Haemonculus: agonizer, liquifier gun, crucible of malediction
Haemonculus: agonizer, liquifier gun
Troops:
10 wracks - acothyst with agonizer, 2 liquifier guns
10 wracks - acothyst with agonizer, 2 liquifier guns
10 wracks - acothyst with agonizer, 2 liquifier guns
10 wracks - acothyst with agonizer, 2 liquifier guns
Elites:
5 upgraded Grotesques, liquifier gun - Abberation with scissorhand
5 Grotesques, liquifier gun
5 Grotesques, liquifier gun
Heavy:
Talos pain engine - TL liquifier gun, TL heat lance
Talos pain engine - TL liquifier gun, TL heat lance
Talos pain engine - TL liquifier gun, TL heat lance
2,000 points of freaks
okay, bear with me... T4/T5 with FNP isn't exactly easy to shift, even without an armor save to speak of... add in three T7 MC's who are going to get a pain token from Urien which makes them really tough to take out.
46 T4 wounds, 48 T5 wounds, and 9 T7 wounds, all with FNP seems almost survivable
Haemonculi join the grotesques so they don't go crazy
the entire army walks forwards, pumping templates of acidic goop on you. If you're meched then three TL melta guns on T7 MC's with FNP should sort that out. Wracks move forward to objectives and try and claim cover, daring anyone to get close and try and take them... grotesques and pain engines try to control midfield.
that's 17 S4 AP D6 templates to deal with, three of them twin linked...
it's not necessarily a great list, but I think it's something to start from.... ;D
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Post by calitom on Dec 19, 2012 21:32:41 GMT -5
Without vehicles you have zero long ranged shooting, the rest is flamer range... =\ If the army was faster I'd say that's fine, but you'll likely just die to bolter fire or better at 24''
If you just want it to look cool, sweet- but I personally don't see how this list would do very well. At least put some raiders and ravagers in there or something!
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 19, 2012 22:40:06 GMT -5
yep... longest range shot I have is 18"... so probably bolters would just kill it dead....
raiders just don't seem to fit the theme somehow....
but I'd rather figure out something and look at it objectively and scrap it off the bat rather than spend a bunch of money making something that won't work at all....
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Post by calitom on Dec 20, 2012 2:28:50 GMT -5
Webway portals might help it a bit, though you'd want bigger units of Grotesques so they can stay on the board to drop them for you.
Drop the Crucible and the Archangel and shift around some points on those characters for Webway portals (Maybe even drop one of the humonculii) and shift some other points around for some more grotesques.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 20, 2012 6:35:17 GMT -5
wouldn't the webway portals mean whatever comes out of them would be no further up the board than if they started on the board? or is that so that anyone firing at the beginning could only target grotesques?
(which are REALLY expensive point wise!!!)
the crucible was seriously there just to try and one shot Eldrad....
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 20, 2012 6:49:41 GMT -5
alright... is this getting better?
HQ:
Urien Rakarth
Haemonculus: agonizer, webway portal
Haemonculus: agonizer, scissorhand, webway portal
Troops:
10 wracks - acothyst with agonizer, 2 liquifier guns
10 wracks - acothyst with agonizer, 2 liquifier guns
10 wracks - acothyst with agonizer, 2 liquifier guns
10 wracks - acothyst with scissorhands, 2 liquifier guns
Elites:
6 upgraded Grotesques
6 Grotesques
6 Grotesques
Heavy:
Talos pain engine - TL heat lance
Talos pain engine - TL heat lance
Talos pain engine - TL heat lance
2,000 points
wracks all reserve... grotesques with Haemonculi (urien with his upgraded dudes). run up the board turn one and drop webways, wracks go to objectives, pain engines and grotesques try to kill stuff
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Post by canadianguy on Dec 20, 2012 7:49:28 GMT -5
What about making raiders/ravagers to look like twisted bats or cut up pain engines and place raiders into them.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 20, 2012 8:23:31 GMT -5
problem is points... when half the list is HQ/Elites, it doesn't leave much left...
I have to have more scoring than I necessarily would take otherwise due to the limitations of being on foot and needing to survive when all you have is FNP (not like a 6+ save ever saved anyone now did it?)
I could drop Urien for a haemonculus ancient, the webways and one squad of wracks to give the other three squads raiders and bring the grotesques up to 7 each
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Post by redshirt2375 on Dec 20, 2012 17:32:25 GMT -5
Had you considered TL Haywire Blasters instead of the Heatlances on the Taloses? It get's you an extra 6" range and it all 3 target the same vehicle they have a decent chance of wrecking it. I had some success running 2 10-man wrack units with 2x Liquifiers in Raiders the one tournament I tried them out. It gives them a chance to actually get across the board without taking a large amount of shooting. And if the Raiders Survive (it can happen) you have the chance to position the unit for optimum Template action when they disembark, or if you have them stay on board the Raider. I would suggest finding points for a Raider for the Grotesques if you're going with smaller size units or else go with your idea of adding more to each unit. As for Urien, you need to determine if the upgraded Grotesques are worth it. Yes he can hand out pain points, but it's only d3 so some games he won't be adding all that much since those extra pain points can only go to Wracks or Grotesques, not the Talos  |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 4, 2013 19:04:22 GMT -5
A rethink.... to make this not so slow and to add anti-tank and range.... ;D
HQ: (each joins a grotesque unit)
Haemonculus
Haemonculus
Haemonculus
Troops:
10 wracks, 2 liquifier guns, Acothyst with agonizer + raider
10 wracks, 2 liquifier guns, Acothyst with agonizer + raider
10 wracks, 2 liquifier guns, Acothyst with agonizer + raider
10 wracks, 2 liquifier guns, Acothyst with agonizer + raider
Elite:
4 grotesques, liquifier gun + raider
4 grotesques, liquifier gun + raider
4 grotesques, liquifier gun + raider
Heavy:
Talos Pain engine with twin linked liquifier gun
Talos Pain engine with twin linked heat lance
Voidraven bomber with 2 necrotoxin missiles
2,000 points
2 MC's and 8 vehicles
65 models - 46 T4 wounds, 36 T5 wounds, 6 T7 wounds
shooting:
2 S9 AP2 lance
2 one shot poison 2+ large blasts
7 S8 AP 2 lance
1 twin linked S6 AP1 melta lance
12 S4 AP D6 templates
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 4, 2013 19:09:40 GMT -5
geez GW.... $1264 to build that eh?
lol.... guess I'd have to find alternative models... $30 for one grotesque and $45 for five wracks seems a little out of my price range!
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Post by redshirt2375 on Feb 4, 2013 19:32:05 GMT -5
If you had any spare Ogres you could always convert them up as Grotesques since they should be roughly the same size.
I think the new list is much better (pretty similar I think to the Coven list I'd originally posted) since it gives you some protection for the units and also adds in a lot of maneuverability while at the same time increasing your anti-tank, which you need to open up enemy transports to get at the units inside.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 4, 2013 19:42:33 GMT -5
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