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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 4, 2013 8:51:44 GMT -5
the new models are actually very cool...
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Post by canadianguy on May 4, 2013 10:33:46 GMT -5
From the quick read I had seems balanced decent internal and external balance, RBT compromise interesting as its 30 pts cheaper, and only a -2 to AS when multi shooting vs -3 last edition. Really liking that lvl 2 loremaster with all the defaults really versatile, many good spells, can use the lore abilities for situational benefits.
Good themed armies are possible. Magic item options were weakest component IMHO. Just struck me as lackluster little regard to fluff/story lines.
I think a heavy shooting army is now very viable with 2 bolt thrower options and sopme str 4 bows.
Other weird point, why is it that only spearmen get a magic std option SH n LSG don't? Odd odd
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Post by stonecutter on May 4, 2013 19:42:20 GMT -5
Just picked up the book this afternoon and had a quick read through. Overall, I am fairly impressed as there are numerous different themed armies one could create rather than the vanilla white lions & phoenix guard mage bunker with minimum core of the prior edition. Just a few random thoughts on some themes as follows:
1) INFANTRY based - The combination of martial prowess (extra rank gets to fight) and cheaper infantry will make an infantry based list even more viable, particularly for hordes of swordmasters and white lions. There are also 3 different types of chariots to choose from and the core troops can consist of a mix of cavalry, fast cav and shooters.
2) CAVALRY & FLYING Circus - Since there are two core cav options, this one is the easiest for a really fast moving army. Dragon princes are slightly cheaper and better (6+ ward & +1" move since barding doesn't slow them down), there are flying chariots and the really hard hitters would be a couple of phoenix (one of fire and another of frost) with points left over for a 1-2 ASF eagles.
3) SHOOTING - Again the martial prowess makes the ranked shooting even better and the troops are cheaper than in the previous book. On top of that, shooting choices have dramatically improved as RBTs are appropriately priced and two new options have emerged. How about a flying chariot with a bolt thrower? If that isn't enough, the new sisters of averlorn offer S4 shooting with BS5 & WS5 - still not good enough for you? Well then, toss in a handmaiden hero choice and the unit gains quick to fire. Still not enough, how about armour piercing against forces of destruction & flaming, magical attacks to boot to deal with those pesky hydras, trolls and anything else with regen or requiring magic attacks to hit (my poor wood elves are so pooched!!). Oh, did I mention, they cost just slightly more than the old lothern sea guard.
Characters & Special Characters:
All characters are cheaper (wizards significantly so) and there are several new hero choices that can boost units such as the aforementioned handmaiden or a lothern one that allows a unit to do a combat reform after it has been charged but before combat begins!! Teclis has been severely toned down to the point that he is a sup-par choice as loremasters of hoeth and regular wizards seem better. There are several other SC's but the most notable is the Everqueen since she has a boatload of magic items and can get spells from life, light & high magic. If a BSB takes her banner, then any life or light spell targeting the BSB's unit gains an additional +4 to casting - i.e. +8 if the Everqueen is casting. Given that she also has a one use item that allows casting any spell a 2nd time in the same phase, stopping her buffs might prove very difficult if not impossible.
MAGIC & MAGIC ITEMS:
While the high magic spells are not going to end the game like a dwellers or purple sun, the signature spell, drain magic, and lore attribute are truly exceptional. Drain magic removes all spell effects from the targeted unit so will help to negate opponent buffs and hexes and the 18" bubble version is easily achievable. Thanks to the lore attribute, any casting also grants a ward save to friendly units of +1 better than its current one so even a couple castings could give those SMs or WLs a 5+ ward. The loremasters of hoeth offers another neat option to gain access to every lore attribute and signature spell along with a wizard that is a combat ninja (ok, maybe a ninjette!!) even better than a chaos sorcerer lord.
Magic items - There are far more choices than any other 8th ed book and only a couple are useless. Here are several that are definitely worth looking at and at least one that is auto-include as follows IMHO:
1) Banner of world dragon (auto include) - want an elite unit that has a 2+ ward vs all magic attacks be they caused by spells, weapons or innate ability then this is your banner. While it won't save anyone from dwellers, daemons get hosed, not to mention my poor wood elves getting pooched yet again!! 2) reaver bow - a cheap weapon that offers long range, multiple shot, S5 shooting would be a nice addition to a handmaiden.
3) Wayshard - if ambushing with a unit of 30 archers or spears appeals to you then look no further. Expensive investment since a character has to have it but a great option for disrupting your opponent.
4) Book of Hoeth - not quite as amazing but at just over half the price it shouldn't be. Still, being able to re-roll one die (except 6's) for every cast/dispel attempt makes it an auto include for any heavy magic list.
Well, that about sums up my first glance at the new book. Hopefully, one or more of us can get an army up and running in the near future so that we can at least see the army in action and maybe take in some of the new models.
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Post by usscott on May 4, 2013 20:01:11 GMT -5
Dragon banner a bit much of a kick in the A's to daemon come on it not like we are still in 7th deamons
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Post by canadianguy on May 4, 2013 23:56:02 GMT -5
Yep and wood elf spirits anything else with magic attacks, magic weapons, and if I am not mistaken it has a cost that makes it possible to put on several different units. (how did it make it through play testing, 2+ OMG)
The book is darn close to an auto include. Can you re-roll it in any situation?
Very solid gunline option, especially if you end up taking shadow magic.
Is wayshard usable on other units? If so my god the potential. Big block of WLs, shivers.
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Post by thesanityassassin on May 5, 2013 0:34:16 GMT -5
I don't have the book in hand, but I read through it at the store...I thought the wayshard limited the ambush to spears and archers?
Regardless, I wish I still had my High Elves.....just too pricey for me to sink my teeth into again....
Maybe if I can find a used army somewhere I'd consider it....really fond of what I've read from the new book.
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Post by stonecutter on May 5, 2013 5:33:05 GMT -5
Just checked the book again (I'll amend my earlier post):
a) The book of hoeth does not allows 6's to be re-rolled; and
b) The wayshard is only for archers & spears, two core choices, but even with this limitation it would still be worth considering.
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Post by canadianguy on May 5, 2013 8:04:06 GMT -5
Book still good but more a go big or go home tactic or focussed for magic defenser. Shard still good. Imagine big spear unit w well protected character in a very fast army turn 2 and everything possibly in combat or set to be, Ouch oh hello here is my tarpit in your rear! Really seems like a great book (just that BOTWD, :-()
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 5, 2013 8:37:03 GMT -5
I don't have the book in hand, but I read through it at the store...I thought the wayshard limited the ambush to spears and archers? Regardless, I wish I still had my High Elves.....just too pricey for me to sink my teeth into again.... Maybe if I can find a used army somewhere I'd consider it....really fond of what I've read from the new book. Island of blood... very, very cheap source of plastic high elves.... locally I'm sure there's a bunch of those models floating around, and online it's pretty darn cheap if you're just looking for the high elf half....
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Post by canadianguy on May 5, 2013 9:32:52 GMT -5
I think it could be done well on the cheap, get lots of seaguard (most people will let you use them as spear, or archers as well. Use that as your foundation then just buy slowly n selectively. 60 to 80 seaguard, 2 flying ships, 4 rbt, 20 to 30 phoenix guard w a couple of characters. Bet you could pull that off for 400 or less, funny that's the new cheap. Was funny to see so many people at ulthuan site saying wow pointed out what I was using and now have 200 to 400 points I can still use.
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Post by usscott on May 5, 2013 19:11:22 GMT -5
Ok I just need a pack of gum hot glue gun and some tinfoil and I make a 3000 point army
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Post by thesanityassassin on May 5, 2013 21:03:45 GMT -5
I might have to take you up on that Scott! =P
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Post by canadianguy on May 6, 2013 16:15:36 GMT -5
GO FOR IT SCOTT! Little tinfoil boats, figures made like little tinfoil trees with glue used for appendages. Add paperclips n grrenstuff and I beat you make a very cool army
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Post by onlurker on May 8, 2013 22:06:43 GMT -5
Scott, you're hilarious, lol
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Post by canadianguy on May 9, 2013 12:09:20 GMT -5
So is anybody playing HE? If so, bought any new kits? The phoenixs seem interesting but are they worth their cost. Anyone actualy expect a tournie army to not have 1 or all of the followibng items: BOTWD, book or shard?
I like the great weapon aSF changes, seems to be a good comprimise. Hope DE execs get it. Thoughts on the maidens? I am really liking them especially in a HE bow line. I am thinking they might have enough mobility n chaff to make a bowline pretty competitive.
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