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Post by flyingnecronmaster on Sept 21, 2013 20:23:25 GMT -5
So I've heard a lot of things about how the new devastator centurions were performing. And from what I hear, they are very...devastating on the battlefield (ba dum tshhh)
Since I never really faced the centurions as necrons, I was wondering if the forum could give some suggestions as to how necrons can deal with them. The devastator centurion's range with grav cannons are 24'', and for necrons, this is the range of most of their guns, so the issue of the devastator centurion's lacking of range with their grav cannons is almost moot against the necrons.
I was thinking maybe scarabs or wraiths would be useful to tie up the centurions? Or perhaps having a doom scythe or a night scythe with some deathmarks could be handy? Maybe the devastator centurions themselves aren't as overpowered as I'm making them out to be, but their synergy with the space marine army makes them powerful? What do you guys think?
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Post by Hizack on Sept 21, 2013 20:28:20 GMT -5
Wraiths would be good because they have no armour save(right? Just the invul?).
Your other option would beo try and blast them off the table with huge torrents of firepower, just skirt around their 24" bubble until you're ready to move in and blast 'em. They don't have any invuls if you have any AP2 or better so they're likely to want to not move from cover if they can help it.
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Post by godsproxy on Sept 21, 2013 21:02:37 GMT -5
If running a vehicle heavy list either sit back and try to ensure you are moving into range to fire first or use something to tarpit them such as Wraiths.
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Post by connor on Sept 21, 2013 21:22:15 GMT -5
Doomscyth, S10 ap2 will wipe these guys up no problem. Also as necrons your armor isn't that great and you don't rely as heavily on vehicles. The power of centurians is in thier ability to bring down tougher units, orks don't give them too much thought.
Just leave anything 3/2+ armor away from them and you can weather their hits with reanimation on lighter units. For 250 points for the unit that isn't scoring and doesn't overly criple your army you can afford to focus on his scoring or units that hit you harder (sterngaurd, terminators, honor gaurd etc)
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Post by flyingnecronmaster on Sept 21, 2013 22:35:15 GMT -5
thanks guys! some really good ideas being tossed around here! I was just thinking about how warriors may be the superior troops choice against space marines, accompanied by a lord and with a ghost ark to help resurrect them. immortals would probably get annihilated with all the plasma and with grav cannons being able to kill them so easily.
of course, night scythes are also an option, but i personally prefer the ghost arks.
i think that wraiths have a 3+ armor save as well as their 3+ invul, as normally the armor save is listed in their statline, and their invul save is listed in a special rule or wargear entry (kinda like chaos daemons), so c'tan have a 4+ armor save as it is listed in their statline. wraiths are still good against the centurions though with their 3+ invul.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 22, 2013 7:03:15 GMT -5
actually necrons have space marine equivalent armor on everything except warriors and scarbs... so yeah grav wounding on 3+ and causing an AP2 hit (or 10 of them!) is pretty devestating...
the thing about centurions is how damn survivable they are - basically T5 paladins with better guns, with two significant weaknesses = slow and purposeful (so you can play keep a way for a bit depending on your deployment) and no invulnerable save...
as necrons what I would do is have everything prepare to hit them at once shooting wise, concentrating fire, and tarpitting what's left with scarabs, or if you've got characters in there (as I faced yesterday) get the wraiths in ASAP... the one turn of withering fire you will take though is considerable on the wraiths (remember they have hurricane bolters too!) but at least the grav won't be too horrible... just like fighting terminators, you need to make them roll a ton of dice... every centurion dropped will significantly reduce the firepower and these guys are pretty expensive point wise... however a character joined to the unit (like I faced yesterday with two characters with them) can tank alot of wounds... and when there's someone in there casting prescience things just get nasty...
wraiths have no armor save at all, only the invulnerable save.... their listing says that their saves are invulnerable... daemons are a special case as their invul save is applied to anything with the daemon rule...
you're also incorrect on c'tan... they also only have an invul save... it is not the case that every time a save lists on the statline it is an armor save, there are several units in the game that this is not the case...
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Post by LizardTau on Sept 22, 2013 7:07:14 GMT -5
Ie can't overwatch  |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 22, 2013 8:01:34 GMT -5
Yeah, assaulting Centurions with a fast hard-hitting unit that either has high strength attacks, or rending/huge volume of attacks is probably one of the best ways to deal with them. Since the shooting variant of them sacrifices the powerfist of an obilterator for more shooting, they are actually quite terrible at getting out of an assault. And due to SNP fast units (again like wraiths) should be able to seriously mess them up.
Now, I haven't faced centurions yet, so take with salt.
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Post by flyingnecronmaster on Sept 22, 2013 10:10:05 GMT -5
I really hope that wraiths and c'tan don't have an armor save! wounding wraiths on 6's and they have a 3+ invul would be merciless against the dev centurions. I was just of the opinion that they do have an armor save because, for example, a keeper of secrets doesn't have it's invul save listed in it's profile because i was under the impression that the statline only mentions it's armor save (which it doesn't have). But then again, this could just be an inconsistency of GW's part. Could you give me an example for which units have their invul save listed in profile? I can't really think of any on the top of my head.
Also, in pg 2-3 of the rulebook, the 9 characteristics of a unit's stats are ws, bs...then goes all the way to armor save. it doesn't mention invul. And the phase shifter is a piece of wargear that gives the wraith a 3+ invul, like storm shields on crusaders, so i think if it were meant for wraiths to have no armor save, in their statline it should be a dash rather than a 3+. But i really DO hope that wraiths only have a 3+ invul: it would be a rare case to make a wraith use its armor save...
would heavy destroyers be effective against the centurions? or would one be better off just sending in lots of units of scarabs/wraiths?
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Post by flyingnecronmaster on Sept 22, 2013 10:16:40 GMT -5
woops sorry i didn't read the part about daemons being an exception. err i'd like to change that example i made about the keeper of secrets to a farseer, or a crusader.
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Post by flyingnecronmaster on Sept 22, 2013 10:17:57 GMT -5
cause a farseer's armor save is -, but he has a 4+ invul, yet the 4+ isn't listed in the farseer's save.
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Post by redshirt2375 on Sept 22, 2013 18:52:39 GMT -5
Nastiest combo I've witnessed (game 1 today) is Dev Centurions with Tigarius when he rolls Endurance and take Prescience. Then those DevCents have Relentless (so now they CAN Overwatch) and get rerolls on all their shooting.
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Post by LizardTau on Sept 22, 2013 19:07:24 GMT -5
hmmm not sure about that, yes slow and purposeful and relentlessdo the same thing, but just because you have one doesn't mean the other disappears. Having relentless doesn't as far as i know get rid of the restrictions that slow and purposeful puts on you, but i may be wrong, I just didn't find anything in ether special rules saying that one gets rid of the other.
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Post by thesanityassassin on Sept 22, 2013 21:12:35 GMT -5
I got thinking that when I got home Jason....they'd still have the Slow and Purposeful rule, which wouldn't disappear. Mind you, I got lucky as hell with my first turn against the Centurions and Tiggy, seizing the initiative and wiping the whole unit+character with one Grav bike squad.
As for Heavy Destroyers, I don't think they'd be a good option, unless they are S10. Otherwise you're only doing one wound to them from each hit, cost a bunch of points, and aren't that hard to remove yourself. Too many otyher good things in a Necron list to pay the points for them. Wraiths or Scarabs seem to be the huge ones for me, either pure volume of wounds from the Scarabs, or the Invul saves of Wraiths. Only problem would be if you win combat and they fall back...your I2 is unlikely to catch them.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 23, 2013 11:50:08 GMT -5
Nastiest combo I've witnessed (game 1 today) is Dev Centurions with Tigarius when he rolls Endurance and take Prescience. Then those DevCents have Relentless (so now they CAN Overwatch) and get rerolls on all their shooting. No, they can't Overwatch. Nothing with SnP can EVER overwatch. EVER. Furthermore, having Slow and Purposeful GRANTS the the Relentless USR. You now have relentless from 2 sources, and you are still SnP, and hence, you still can't overwatch. No rule in the game allows you to remove/negate SnP under any circumstance. Wraiths are the best for dealing with cents because they do not have an armour save. Hence they cannot be wounded by grav weapons (or wounded only on 6s?) and would get a 3+ invul against their Hurricane Bolters. Second best would be a Doom Scythe, and just draw a line through their pretty little faces and laugh as you kill them on 2s while they are locked in combat with your wraiths. (At which point you evolve into Matt Ward) |
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