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Post by voodoo on Dec 15, 2017 13:29:18 GMT -5
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Dec 15, 2017 14:25:09 GMT -5
Wooooooo! I love the beta character rule. It's exactly what I've been saying. Nothing more annoying than 5 primaris psykers in a huddle stopping you from targeting each one individually.
*edit* oh god, I love the smite beta even more! Just tiny little changes, but boy oh boy, they feel right. Still let's you cast smite, but those same primaris psykers are struggling to get all 5 off now.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 15, 2017 14:33:28 GMT -5
so... beta rules...
what do we think for club champs?
given they won't be official until March from what it sounds like?
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Dec 15, 2017 14:38:06 GMT -5
Test 'em out on saturdays. Maybe they're not as awesome in practice, but on paper they seem to solve two of my biggest gripes with the game as it is!
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Post by thesanityassassin on Dec 15, 2017 15:38:20 GMT -5
In my mind they do nothing except fix annoying spam issues, so I'm all for them.
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Post by LizardTau on Dec 15, 2017 15:50:52 GMT -5
I haven't seen much smite spam other then grey knights and they only do one wound.
But it would hurt them and tzeentch daemons the most. I know people didn't like brimstone spam. But this would make tzeentch Desmons useless.
Can't get over 6 on a d6. And your going to want to cast smite on fateweaver or the like.
Just saying. Not that I'm against it I'm just saying who it will hurt.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 15, 2017 16:01:58 GMT -5
I haven't seen much smite spam other then grey knights and they only do one wound. But it would hurt them and tzeentch daemons the most. I know people didn't like brimstone spam. But this would make tzeentch Desmons useless. Can't get over 6 on a d6. And your going to want to cast smite on fateweaver or the like. Just saying. Not that I'm against it I'm just saying who it will hurt. I'm thinking that come January Daemon dex we'll see what they're planning to do with brimstones... as with 8th they just haven't sorted that out very well. they alternate from OP to nerfed very quickly.
I'm not saying they should be amazing because they're super cheap with an invul save and they're a troop - they really don't NEED to cast any powers to be very good for the points. (if they're objective sitters for example) However people are used to them being offensive units for some reason since the 8th index made it a no brainer choice.
The reason no one runs pinks is because their much cheaper cousins are just way better.
I'm pretty confident that they've sorted this out with the "smite" considerations in play as well, as it seems like the things they "propose" as rules are actually written out in some pretty definite form several months before... we're just in the lag time between playtesting and release so we're just not seeing the big picture yet.
I'm positive they don't want Tzeentch Daemons to be an unplayable mess. I think we need to wait for the codex (which by all accounts is just a few weeks away). The smite change had me immediately think of tzeentch though. As that's really their thing.
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Post by thesanityassassin on Dec 15, 2017 17:01:27 GMT -5
Ideally Horrors will go back to some sort of shooting weapon in my mind.
The whole Tzeentch daemon list is problematic in the way it relies on a single power to do so much of its work. Especially when that power is very definitely a problem in the meta in general.
You don't want to screw one army over in particular, but at the same time it's rough to keep something that's detrimental to the game as a whole for the sake of one somewhat uncommon army.
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Post by LizardTau on Dec 15, 2017 17:13:14 GMT -5
Ya I play pink horrors. Cause i don't have the others.
Pink horrors have a shooting attack but is all but useless.
I think they should have just taken smite away from brimstone.
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Post by thesanityassassin on Dec 15, 2017 17:14:51 GMT -5
Hopefully the new Daemon book will do so. A 30 point troop units with a 4++ and a psychic power is just a touch overkill.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 15, 2017 18:25:57 GMT -5
yes, brimstones are a problem unit and should never have been made like that.
I for one (and yes I play a LOT of daemon armies) welcome the end of smite spam. friggin hate it.
given that Reese from Frontline said just today on their site how much they think smite spam ruins the game, I'd anticipate that proposed change will in fact stick.
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Post by LizardTau on Dec 15, 2017 18:52:44 GMT -5
as i said, im not against it. It wont matter much in our area. people don't seem to be playing the new hotness crazy net lists anyway.
and if it makes the game in a whole more enjoyable im totally for it. If it mean my tzeentch daemon wont be as good as they could be because i dont want to own the most cost effective troops. well then thats my own problem lol
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Post by voodoo on Dec 15, 2017 23:29:31 GMT -5
I feel like this still gimps Thousand Sons pretty hard.
Completely kills Malefic lords and Brimstone spam but unfairly punishes Thousand Sons.
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Post by thesanityassassin on Dec 16, 2017 0:00:19 GMT -5
In my mind it wouldn't be out of the question to tweak things a little bit to benefit armies that cast a reduced version of Smite, but I suppose we'll have to see how things play out.
Unfortunately it feels pretty in line with previous attempts to comp anything where you're left with the unpleasant choice of nerfing a particular rule and stopping some of the most abusive lists but also punishing some much weaker armies unfairly, or else leaving things as they were for the benefit of the weaker armies, but then leaving things open for top tier lists to get really abusive.
Honestly I wish they'd move Smite to an actual strength/AP value attack and leave the Mortal Wounds to higher tier psychic powers. I really hate the thought of punishing armies who historically do their damage in the psychic phase, but the Mortal Wound mechanic is just so powerful as it stands that it's hard to ignore, as it can totally wreck someone's day when it gets spammed to hell, especially at casting cost 5!
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Post by Khalai on Dec 16, 2017 0:11:39 GMT -5
Honestly I wish they'd move Smite to an actual strength/AP value attack and leave the Mortal Wounds to higher tier psychic powers. This was the exact solution I had been thinking of for those lower tier smites. Make them mid strength and high AP (like -4) so only invuls work. Subject regular smites to the beta test rule and away you go. Stops megasmitespam without crushing those lower tier smites (other than they have to wound and are saveable, but hey, they're lower tier for a reason) |
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