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Post by danny1995 on Jan 15, 2016 21:20:01 GMT -5
Well I'd personally assume it would follow the eldar battle focus setup in that you can't do both with a heavy weapon unless you have relentless.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 15, 2016 23:46:05 GMT -5
I think what Jason was pointing out is pg 41 rule book-
"If a model carrying a heavy weapon moved in the preceding MOVEMENT PHASE, he can fire the weapon in the SHOOTING PHASE but only if he snap fires."
This is clearly a problem of codex's updating faster than the rule book. When the rulebook was released no one would give this a second thought but now there are multiple units for multiple codex that can move in the shooting phase and still shoot as normal. The rules clear state that its the movement phase that effects the result of the shots not the action of movement itself.
This could also point to Hit and Run and Scout rules. If your unit with hit and run uses it in the assault phase its clear to the player that they have move BUT they still meet all the requirement for not snap shooting in the next shooting phase. Does a scout move that occurs in the pre-game phase effect models with heavy weapon since its clear they moved but not in the movement phase of the game which hasn't even started yet (this would make pathfinder the most useless models in the game if so).
I feel like its a totally fair question since the rule book does make it clear that the phase the movement occurs in is important to the rule.I think this is a RAW vs RAI. Overall I have to side with the RAI, that running should probably effect your shooting in a negative way BUT I do think that both Scout and Hit and Run special rules would not be affected as they are unique instances where models can move outside of standard phases.
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 16, 2016 5:41:47 GMT -5
I agree with those. Other then hit and run would be the pervious turn as it is in the assault phase. In which you wouldn't have been able to be in combat unless you were assaulted or were relentless and had assault them. If you fired a heavy weapon.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 16, 2016 8:03:45 GMT -5
I checked with the tourney organizer, if you run with a heavy weapon in that shooting phase you count as moving unless you're relentless.
battle focus with a heavy weapon means you snap shoot.
He was pretty clear about it when I asked.
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Post by danny1995 on Jan 16, 2016 8:38:11 GMT -5
It's actually in the battle focus rule that you can not run and shoot with a heavy unless you have relentless, you can't even snap fire. The most clear cut rule statement from gw in a while.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 16, 2016 10:08:06 GMT -5
That makes perfect sense. Running in the shooting phase does effect shooting. Where do we fall on scout movement and Hit and Run then. Are they forms of movement that will cause snap shooting? As a Tau player I can site my three most common examples:
1. Scout movement with pathfinders, they have now moved. Does that mean on turn 1 shooting they have to snap fire the markerlights because they are heavy and have moved before the first shooting phase?
2. My broadsides/buffmander get charged by anything. they lose some guys but hold. I Hit and Run out of the combat thanks to Buffmander. It is now my turn are my broadsides snap shooting?
3. Kroot Charge Dev marines, they consolidate into combat 3". the kroot then bounce off and die like chumps. The marines then consolidate d6 inches and it is their turn. Do they snap shoot due to the possible 9" move they have made?
In all three situation no model has moved in the movement phase or Ran in the shooting phase, yet a clear movement of models have occurred. I have also had all there of these situations happen in game. In each of these situation I have played it out as they fire as normal as they meet all requirements to do so but now I'm not sure if people agree with this.
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Post by Khalai on Jan 16, 2016 11:14:35 GMT -5
Scout moves are not on turn 1. They are before the game starts. That one is the easy deal. Moves in the assault phase have never impeded heavy weapons in any version of the game yet. I fail to see how they would now all of a sudden. I think the issue is clearly that moving in the movement phase gives weapons a significant advantage THAT turn, so moving in the shooting phase offers the same advantage, thus should be treated the same. That said the eldar battle focus rule takes care of heavy weapons in its entry anyways.
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 16, 2016 11:29:53 GMT -5
1 they don't need to snap shoot because it was before turn one.
2 they don't need to snap shoot as it was the other players turn and they didn't move on their turn.
3 they don't need to snap shoot as it was the previous player turn not their turn they moved.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 16, 2016 17:05:26 GMT -5
no need to snap fire if you hit and run, scout move or anything else...
...just if you move in that turn
however as has been pointed out, really the only thing that can do that is eldar and their codex takes care of it, so problem solved right?
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jan 16, 2016 17:18:59 GMT -5
Units within 12" of the commander or Cadre Fireblade in a hunter Cadre can run and then shoot, in that order. So a broadside could run, then shoot in the shooting phase. Nothing says they have to snap fire. In the spirit of the game though, I believe they probably should have to.
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 16, 2016 17:20:24 GMT -5
Tau can also. Run and then shoot or go flat out and shoot with the hunter cadre
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Post by danny1995 on Jan 16, 2016 17:43:08 GMT -5
Are their any models they have access to that don't have relentless and carry a heavy weapon?
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 16, 2016 17:51:34 GMT -5
Broadsides. Pathfinders. And Sniperkroot.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 16, 2016 19:07:32 GMT -5
if you move and shoot in the same turn you snap shoot a heavy weapon unless you're relentless
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 16, 2016 19:17:50 GMT -5
Or have slow and purposeful but you'd never be able to run
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