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Post by raceygaming on Jan 17, 2016 11:27:31 GMT -5
So after a discussion with some players yesterday day I would like to put forward the nexus house rule for tournament and all game play (saturdays) that Blood Angel gain the base stat increases that are found in the Vanilla Marine codex. Scouts are BS/WS 4, Dreadnoughts are base A4.(As a non-marine player those are the 2 big differences I know about be if there are more just add them to the list)
Additionally I noticed in the ITC that they allow for Dark angels bike to use the re-roll 4+ cover save rather than the 3+ armor on the regular bikes. The rule book state that the best save is taken. So despite the 3+ being the "lower" number the 4+ re-rollable is the best save they can take. So I think this is an example of a good choice from ITC and think we should adopt it as well.
Right now I don't think the Blood or Dark Angels are the big bad armies out there so these changes just help the codex out without any real balance issues.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 17, 2016 11:31:25 GMT -5
the rerollable 4+ is the best save the model has, so I would say it would be this
I agree (in fact I was supposed to suggest this, but totally forgot cuz I'm an old guy) with the BA changes to scouts and dreads. It's the only fair way to do it I think.
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 17, 2016 15:04:36 GMT -5
That's awesome for my blood angels.
Sent from my SGH-I337M using proboards
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 17, 2016 17:05:58 GMT -5
It's not just awesome, its fair and awesome!
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Post by Khalai on Jan 17, 2016 20:46:04 GMT -5
It's not just awesome, its fair and awesome! Fairsome.
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Post by inverse on Jan 18, 2016 12:16:57 GMT -5
Had a discussion on Saturday about the get-hot rule when dealing with twin-link or rerolls.
The scenario is a black knight is firing twin linked plasma talons, the first roll is a 2 to hit and is rerolled and becomes a 1. The standard logic here is that for all rerolls the second result must be taken even if it is the worse result. Therefore the 1 must be taken and a wound is allocated for gets hot and an armour save must be made. In the 7th edition rulebook under the gets hot rule the last paragraph talks about rerolls for gets hot rolls. The wording is something along the lines of: "A weapon with both Gets Hot! and twin-linked only gets hot if the reroll is ALSO a 1."
My interpretation of that wording is both the initial to hit roll and the reroll would need to be a 1 for a wound to be taken from gets hot. So in the scenario where a black knight rolls a 2 to hit and rerolls into a 1 he would not suffer a wound from a gets hot.
How I usually play this is pick up all the ones first and reroll them for the gets hot. Then do the rest of the rerolls after.
Thoughts?
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Post by Khalai on Jan 18, 2016 12:40:53 GMT -5
The gets hot rule wording specifically is to preclude the original roll of a 1 not getting hot if it is rerolled. Without that wording, any rerollable gets hot weapon would still get hot even if the reroll hits so long as the original roll was a 1.
The reason that weapons get hot if there is a reroll and it comes up a 1 is because of the Re-roll rule which indicates a re-roll MUST accept the second result even if it is worse than the original result.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 18, 2016 12:45:28 GMT -5
deleted my original response after cross posting with Justin.
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Post by inverse on Jan 18, 2016 12:52:03 GMT -5
Yeah I agree with the re-roll rule which says you always take the second result even if its worse.
I don't have my book on me at work here but the first part of the last paragraph details that rerolling allows the user to reroll a result of 1 to not get hot. The middle part says that a model will only take a wound if the reroll is ALSO (key word is also) a one. The last part talks about how rerolling affects gets hot blast weapons.
The way I have seen it described online is the initial roll to hit roll is the gets hot roll for any weapon that rolls to hit. If that roll does not come up 1 (such as a 2) then the weapon does not get hot, but may reroll to hit as normal. If you compare this to how a twin linked plasma cannon would work, you roll to get hot if it comes up a 1 you would reroll. If the initial gets hot roll comes up a 2 then the weapon does not get hot.
I agree the wording is convoluted mostly because I think they changed the gets hot rule wording from 6th-7th. To be honest I think the rule change was because black knights have a tendency to kill themselves with so much twin linked rapid fire plasma.
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Post by inverse on Jan 18, 2016 13:02:39 GMT -5
For completions sake here is the wording from the rulebook that I am calling into quesiton: "If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for a weapon that do not roll To Hit."
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jan 18, 2016 13:05:03 GMT -5
For twin-linked blast weapons that get hot, can you reroll the "gets hot" dice?
EDIT: re-read the rules, saw that you can. Thanks!
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Post by inverse on Jan 18, 2016 13:06:39 GMT -5
Just to add this also is important in the concept of black knights jinking, as all of a sudden you a rerolling 1-5 and only keeping 6s. Meaning you are much more likely to kill yourself while jinking. Here is a dakka discussion on this: www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/667865.page
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Post by inverse on Jan 18, 2016 13:07:17 GMT -5
For twin-linked blast weapons that get hot, can you reroll the "gets hot" dice? You sure can.
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Post by cmcd on Jan 18, 2016 13:08:10 GMT -5
For twin-linked blast weapons that get hot, can you reroll the "gets hot" dice? Yes.
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Post by cmcd on Jan 18, 2016 13:18:00 GMT -5
Yeah I agree with the re-roll rule which says you always take the second result even if its worse. I don't have my book on me at work here but the first part of the last paragraph details that rerolling allows the user to reroll a result of 1 to not get hot. The middle part says that a model will only take a wound if the reroll is ALSO (key word is also) a one. The last part talks about how rerolling affects gets hot blast weapons. The way I have seen it described online is the initial roll to hit roll is the gets hot roll for any weapon that rolls to hit. If that roll does not come up 1 (such as a 2) then the weapon does not get hot, but may reroll to hit as normal. If you compare this to how a twin linked plasma cannon would work, you roll to get hot if it comes up a 1 you would reroll. If the initial gets hot roll comes up a 2 then the weapon does not get hot. I agree the wording is convoluted mostly because I think they changed the gets hot rule wording from 6th-7th. To be honest I think the rule change was because black knights have a tendency to kill themselves with so much twin linked rapid fire plasma. The way I interpret the rule as per the book. is as follows Gets Hot:"...If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls to hit..., a wound is only suffered if the to hit reroll is also a 1..." The word in question is ALSO. Also - Adverb - "in addition, too" If you get a chance to reroll for what ever reason. Preferred enemy, Twin linked, Mission, 6+ BS. That's the first half. In addition the last roll ends up to be a 1, then it Gets Hot.
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