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Post by trantos01 on Aug 7, 2019 19:46:29 GMT -5
you'd use your one death hex a turn on a rhino? Well if he doesn't have a Imperial Knight or a Dreadnought with invuls in range to target with the DH why not?
Also depends on what said Rhino is trying to drive up into your face. Because depending on the contents, you might really want that metal box to pop as far away from you as possible.
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Post by cmcd on Aug 7, 2019 22:44:20 GMT -5
so... a primaris rhino can have a 4+ invul save stock but my bloodthirsters can't? (without a relic or burning 2 CP for a single phase) ummmm.... okay Well of course not. A bloodthirster is tainted by Chaos .. Duh. |
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Post by LizardTau on Aug 8, 2019 4:50:52 GMT -5
while true, would you play blood thirtster points for a blood thirster with no arms, not as good at close combat but can hold 6 daemons inside?
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Aug 8, 2019 7:12:11 GMT -5
while true, would you play blood thirtster points for a blood thirster with no arms, not as good at close combat but can hold 6 daemons inside? I'd pay rhino points for any transport with no guns and a 4++ to drive my daemons up the field so they weren't shot off the board... yes, yes I certainly would! also doubt that rhino will be 260 points! (or they won't sell one kit) my point is the imperials are given out invulnerable saves so easily, even now on a transport, which is better invulnerable protection than a greater daemon! Oh and the transport also has the same toughness and armor save as well. I guess it's more a criticism of how GW looks at the cost / survivability of greater daemon as compared to an imperium model that yes, will not fight anything in combat (but that's not it's role, its a transport), but really against a decently built marine list neither will the daemon. Even with a 4++ relic and a FNP warlord trait I either lose my thirster to first blood or have him down to 5 or less wounds the FIRST enemy shooting phase. If that happens to the prim-rhino who cares, it did it's job. When it's a quarter of your list, your warlord and one of your main combat threats (and maybe one of two models that can kill a knight) that's a problem. Will it stop me from running greater daemons? hell no, they're super cool models and I'm buying more! We were just laughing last Saturday at my sad excuse for a blood thirster getting cut down like butter every game. Guess cuz I only was running two (d-thirster and skarbrand).... sigh... need more blood thirsters! .... now there's no sense offering a criticism without a fix right? If I were to fix greater daemons, I'd keep them the same point cost... but I'd make them all T8 with the great unclean one being T9. They all have a 4++, while the Lord of Change has a 3++. Keep warp surge as an option, but still limit it to not dropping an invul below 3++. Keep the impossible robe, but just change it to rerollable saves, with no invul improvement or stupid "your relic kills your expensive warlord just because". Now they're scary, still not going to roll imperium (lascannons are going to still kill a D-thirster as easily as now, but at least freaking bolters aren't) and once they actually make combat (khorne willing) they've got more staying power. This isn't overpowered, it's actually standard kit for imperium characters (4++ or 3++) and standard toughness for an imperium big model (landraider, all the forgeworld variants, knights - which although are more points are 8+ more wounds with better combat AND way better shooting) Anyhow, not to derail the thread anymore so I have to actually make a marine comment: My smurfs are going to smurf you right in the smurf with this awesome update! |
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Post by raceygaming on Aug 8, 2019 14:13:47 GMT -5
I mean when it comes down to it, GW wants marines to be a top army. It is the most bought army and as 40k expends with TV series, video game and other non-table top media the Marine will be the cash cow.
I think back to early 7th when Marines were hammered and barely saw play, the fix was in and all of a sudden you got the Demi-Company and Libraisus Conclave which flat out broke balance.
I am much happier to see balance achieved with some new rules and models then that kinda crap. Do I think a rhino should have a 4++, no it doesn't make any sense even a little bit but hey I'd love to see rhinos on the table again.
The big unit that I'm hoping to see come back even a little is the drop pod. fingers crossed!!
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Post by LizardTau on Aug 8, 2019 14:41:25 GMT -5
I agree about the greater daemons. Didn't they all use to have a 4++.
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Post by Typhus on Aug 8, 2019 14:43:00 GMT -5
The rumour mill is buzzing about supposedly insanely powerful stratagems in the Ultramarines Codex Supplement, so I wouldn't count out the return of broken balance.
Obviously, Marines needed the buffs but it feels a bit silly when their contemporaries (BA/SW/DA/DW, even GK) are inexplicably left out. Not to mention CSM. Our Codex 2.0 dropped, and all we got was another stinkin' Cultist nerf.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Aug 8, 2019 14:55:25 GMT -5
I understand the more unique chapters being left out, as they have a book of their own, and including all of their bespoke units would swell the already absurdly large number of data sheets in the SM codex. They will just have to wait for their own codex to come out.
CSM definitely got a bit robbed though. Why bother releasing what really looks more like a 1.1 version followed immediately by a far more fulsome update for loyalists.
That being said, the amount of "wHy NoT Me" on the internet is pretty damn crazy. What do they expect GW to do, release EVERY book at the same time? I wouldn't be surprised if they keep the gravy train rolling and just do a two/three year update cycle of all the books.
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Post by LizardTau on Aug 8, 2019 15:21:55 GMT -5
Ya I can see this being the start of all the codex 2.0s coming out.
If they push then out as fast as last time it wont be long until other popular factions have updates also
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Aug 8, 2019 20:49:35 GMT -5
I much prefer a revamp of codexes every couple years than a whole new game system... 8th has a pretty good base system going and chapter approved at least gives everyone point tweaks etc. on a regular basis.
I do actually understand they want marines to be in the top of the heap for competitiveness... it's kind of a universe based on them vs. chaos with everyone else being extra villans/support heroes for the most part in the lore.
If the marines were getting trounced regularly, I can see GW wanting that to change, as they are the gateway army to the hobby for new players.
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Post by cdono077 on Aug 9, 2019 8:27:57 GMT -5
* The Deathwatch and Grey Knights will also be gaining the Shock Assault ability in their own updates at the same time! And don’t forget, the Deathwatch also have access to the new Primaris Repulsor Executioner.
** If you’re a fan of the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights or Deathwatch, don’t worry – you can look forward to official rules updates coming soon via free PDF download. And remember, you Heretic Astartes players out there will also be gaining Shock Assault for your units in a similar update!
The two above notes are the fine print at the bottom...Seems like other marines are getting the shock assault rules (including CSM)by the look of it.
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Post by artonas on Aug 9, 2019 12:03:32 GMT -5
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Aug 9, 2019 18:33:00 GMT -5
doesn't seem to over the top (unless I'm completely missing something obvious here)
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Post by trantos01 on Aug 9, 2019 20:09:25 GMT -5
Well I'm not familiar with load-out options for the WS but that +1 damage could be devastating. Your rank and file doing two damage per hit is not something to sneeze at, particularly if you can pair it with AP weapons.
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Post by kaelon on Aug 11, 2019 15:42:31 GMT -5
Just putting this out there  |
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