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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jun 14, 2022 13:15:58 GMT -5
I'm definitely feeling that this is a lead up towards a 10th edition where CP are a very diminished resource, given how badly this messes with so many existing books who are going to need a new codex to compensate.
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 14, 2022 15:45:11 GMT -5
UNLESS in CA they make things like exalted into points based upgrades....in general I think its about 20 points to a CP with most of the upgrades in other codexs.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 14, 2022 16:12:07 GMT -5
Ya if you rely on anything that is a "one per detachment" - Warboss, Hive tyrant, Commanders, Great daemons then you are kinda screwed. Also there are some armies that MUCH more heavily rely on relic/traits than others. I think one of the biggest winner if points don't change too much are the Salamanders. They are the sleepers of the Marines I think. Stares at shelves full of xenos uh oh |
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Post by trantos01 on Jun 14, 2022 16:59:14 GMT -5
I'm definitely feeling that this is a lead up towards a 10th edition where CP are a very diminished resource, given how badly this messes with so many existing books who are going to need a new codex to compensate. And that's exactly what GW wants. I mean they need to provide a certain....incentive to buy the 10th core rule book after all.
Though looks like the leak/preview was right in a way; each player gets a CP in each command phase. Meaning that no matter hw much you spend you'll always have at least one in your opponent's turn.
Fortunately it's also noted that Super-Heavy Aux detachments don't cost CP as long as it matches your warlord's faction.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jun 14, 2022 17:37:38 GMT -5
I'm definitely feeling that this is a lead up towards a 10th edition where CP are a very diminished resource, given how badly this messes with so many existing books who are going to need a new codex to compensate. I'm not even sure this will be a wait til 10th thing. My wolves list that previously started with 9CP now starts with just 1. Any list built around spamming a key strat or circumventing the commander rule just got nuked directly in the jaw. |
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jun 14, 2022 17:59:40 GMT -5
I'm definitely feeling that this is a lead up towards a 10th edition where CP are a very diminished resource, given how badly this messes with so many existing books who are going to need a new codex to compensate. I'm not even sure this will be a wait til 10th thing. My wolves list that previously started with 9CP now starts with just 1. Any list built around spamming a key strat or circumventing the commander rule just got nuked directly in the jaw. So I take it we still don't really know what this was meant to accomplish besides making it really hard to play lists that rely on CP to tick? I mean this punishes: -Strategem-heavy lists -Relic/WL trait heavy lists -Detachment spam -Probably other stuff I haven't even thought of yet
I'm not sure I see where this takes us yet. It's obviously deliberate but I'm not seeing how this is expected to change the game beyond just being a very scattershot meta mix up. The secondary changes feel more straight-line in that it's easy to identify the problem and how the changes are meant to address it.
Like if IG leaks showed up and the whole book had five stratagems in it I would see where this was meant to be taking us, right now I guess I'm just curious and confused.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jun 14, 2022 18:08:58 GMT -5
I'm not even sure this will be a wait til 10th thing. My wolves list that previously started with 9CP now starts with just 1. Any list built around spamming a key strat or circumventing the commander rule just got nuked directly in the jaw. So I take it we still don't really know what this was meant to accomplish besides making it really hard to play lists that rely on CP to tick? I mean this punishes: -Strategem-heavy lists -Relic/WL trait heavy lists -Detachment spam -Probably other stuff I haven't even thought of yet
I'm not sure I see where this takes us yet. It's obviously deliberate but I'm not seeing how this is expected to change the game beyond just being a very scattershot meta mix up. The secondary changes feel more straight-line in that it's easy to identify the problem and how the changes are meant to address it.
Like if IG leaks showed up and the whole book had five stratagems in it I would see where this was meant to be taking us, right now I guess I'm just curious and confused.
I'm definitely in the same boat. So much of what worked previously is just deader than doornails by the look of it. |
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Post by trantos01 on Jun 14, 2022 18:16:29 GMT -5
Seems more that it's focusing on Alpha-strike cheese Lists that burn a ton of CP in a particular way that first turn to wipe everything out.
Oh you can still do an alpha-strike list, you're just going to be highly limited in terms of special gear/characters.
Instead if you're using CP for character upgrades etc; you build for a knock-down drag-out fight.
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Post by mrmanstory on Jun 14, 2022 18:18:48 GMT -5
The oath for imperial knights where you get an extra cp a turn is going to be very useful going forward. Especially when most knights lists now will probably start the game with 0 cp.
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Post by voodoo on Jun 14, 2022 18:56:40 GMT -5
Knights of both flavours are going to 100% be shoehorned into the two available options for list construction presented in the codex. With these changes to CP, they've shot themselves in the foot in ever hoping to sell a FW knight ever again. (Unless they change keywords on them.)
Knights CAN (not will, but can) start with a max of 4cp. But, you'd have to make a force exactly as described in the codex AND only pick a single WLT & Relic.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jun 14, 2022 19:31:44 GMT -5
Oh yeah I missed relic vehicles on my list. Boy CP sure does a lot of different stuff lol
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Post by voodoo on Jun 14, 2022 19:56:32 GMT -5
Yeah, contemptor dreads, sicarans, or as you said Derek, ANY "martial legacy" vehicle would be an even more hideous liability than they were previously. I'm not going to pass judgement until I see it in action fully, and have built lists around the new system, but I can't help but feel like there's going to be some significant growing pains in regards to this change.
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Post by mrmanstory on Jun 15, 2022 0:20:03 GMT -5
I will say, it definitely increases the usefulness of characters that give your army free cp. My point being ill probably be bringing guilliman and calgar a lot lol
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 15, 2022 6:24:19 GMT -5
Knights of both flavours are going to 100% be shoehorned into the two available options for list construction presented in the codex. With these changes to CP, they've shot themselves in the foot in ever hoping to sell a FW knight ever again. (Unless they change keywords on them.) Knights CAN (not will, but can) start with a max of 4cp. But, you'd have to make a force exactly as described in the codex AND only pick a single WLT & Relic. well EVERY list that takes a single WLT and relic starts with a max of 4 CP (barring special characters like Bobby G that give a couple more). Every list that does MORE than that pre-game will have far, far less. 4 CP seems like the new optimal starting point for your general battalion etc. list. My nid list I played last weekend starts with zero CP. My slaanesh list would be -3. As to the reason WHY they did this? People were loudly complaining strats were out of control. They went from a "cinematic moment" idea to something that people hit the spam button on a few strats. Meanwhile in AOS, everyone had 1-3 max per turn (with no starting CP) and there didn't seem to be an issue. So I understand WHY they did what they did, but certain armies now have to really, really make some hard choices as to what to bring. And I now officially have WAY too many greater daemons (until hopefully the new book fixes it!) |
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Post by artonas on Jun 15, 2022 6:39:26 GMT -5
I’m happy with starting with less CP. I was taking so many extra relics and warlord traits for my deathwatch that I always needed a cheat sheet to remember everything along with their ranges of those abilities. Spending 3 CP pre game seems much more reasonable now and I’ll probably be taking less characters cause of this.
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