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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jun 15, 2022 8:14:50 GMT -5
Yeah it's probably not a bad idea in principal the issue is that all the books out there were clearly designed under the assumption that you had CP to spare. All niche strats are basically dead now, even more relics and warlord traits are gonna be non-starters, stuff like CP for detachments/relic vehicles probably needs to be reworked... it's a very deep cut on a core philosophy underpinning the edition.
I'm not sure what can be done if anything to help books written before this change, but hopefully something, cos it's gonna be very messy for a while. Especially if new books are adapted for it.
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 15, 2022 10:34:46 GMT -5
I mean I guess the things that we might see change is with the changes to CP there might just be a list like
2nd Patrols - 0 CP , 3rd patrol -1 CP Outriders -1 CP Vanguard -1 CP Spearhead - 1 CP Super heavy Aux -1 CP ( -0 CP if same as warlord)
Try to take the edge off starting with 6 and assuming most players are going to want 1 relic OR Warlord trait.
The things that is going to need a huge adjustment are the data sheet that were more or less priced with a relic/trait in mind. I'm convinced that the warboss with Klaw is 100 pts because EVERYONE made it the relic Kill Klaw. without that he might be worth 75 pts? Greater Deamons are priced 100% to make each and every one extalted....no one is paying 230 pts for a NON-exalted keeper without a relic. That's insane.
Also all the utility relics might we well be wiped out, no one is paying CP to unit an upgrade on a unit champion unless there is some MASSIVE buff...thinking maybe black Templar might do it for the tank and rez terminator champion.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 15, 2022 10:38:27 GMT -5
Even though my lists in particular are going to be hit very hard by this (my poor daemons! stop kicking them GW they're already dead!) I can totally understand the need to do something drastic because the strats are kind of out of control. CP to spare is part of the problem with these crazy combos and alpha strikes.
Many of the big complaints as to "have" and "have not" armies are based in large part on what strats and secondaries they have available. If the playing field is getting leveled in that manner (and points are free updates online now!) They at least have sorted out some of the major stumbling blocks to this edition.
I know my tyranid lists are hit by this quite a bit, but the army NEEDS to be toned down and I totally get that. My necrons on the other hand are not affected by this at all (and get a slight edge in some respects as I likely will never take a relic or warlord trait as they're pretty "meh") and the power level between nids and necrons right now is a pretty wide margin... so I'm totally okay with that gap being closed a bit.
Us having to adjust our lists, although a pain for sure, is probably a good thing in the end.
....at least that's what I keep telling myself lol
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jun 15, 2022 11:23:30 GMT -5
Whether it is a good thing will probably depend on what the next codexes look like.
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Post by trantos01 on Jun 15, 2022 18:38:54 GMT -5
Whether it is a good thing will probably depend on what the next codexes look like. I can see each race getting a method of saving CP when used or generating an extra one. To be more exact, one that isn't locked into only one specific sub-faction and/or named character.
Take the Votann leaks, take any psyker and you have a War Charge 5 spell to generate an extra CP.
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Post by mrmanstory on Jun 15, 2022 18:46:41 GMT -5
So dumb question, It'll still be 1 cp to give mortarion and magnus their Warlord traits I'd assume even though they have multiple?
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jun 15, 2022 19:49:54 GMT -5
So dumb question, It'll still be 1 cp to give mortarion and magnus their Warlord traits I'd assume even though they have multiple? I think this remains to be seen.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 15, 2022 19:50:40 GMT -5
So dumb question, It'll still be 1 cp to give mortarion and magnus their Warlord traits I'd assume even though they have multiple? appears to be the way it works
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 16, 2022 8:55:16 GMT -5
I am really hoping that named characters are going to get the traits for free because they don't really get to pick and if not then you have things like Morty-3 CP...trajan -2 cp. Any of the cool double traits start to become a liability.
ALso it would be a nice way to enjoyed named HQs to join the game.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jun 16, 2022 8:59:34 GMT -5
So dumb question, It'll still be 1 cp to give mortarion and magnus their Warlord traits I'd assume even though they have multiple? appears to be the way it works Given the wording on their special rules, there's two different approaches here, assuming they don't FAQ to clarify this. (which I suspect they will) Magnus -> Magnus simply gains three traits when he would normally be given a trait, which in my mind means if you pay the single CP to give him a trait, he gains all three instead. effectively three-for-one. Mortarion -> Morty's rule is a little differently worded, he explicitly just gains an extra trait at the start of the first battle round, regardless if he's already got a trait or not, or is the warlord or not. So _technically_ Morty seems like he would still gain his "extra" trait regardless of if you took a trait already or not. This is all interpreting current wording of these special rules, which could change in the FAQ.
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Post by Typhus on Jun 16, 2022 9:40:36 GMT -5
Mortarion -> Morty's rule is a little differently worded, he explicitly just gains an extra trait at the start of the first battle round, regardless if he's already got a trait or not, or is the warlord or not. You're referring to Mortarion's bonus Contagion ability - and your interpretation is correct. But just like Magnus, he also gets three Warlord Traits if he's the Warlord - Living Plague, Arch-Contaminator, and Revoltingly Resilient. No word yet on how that works - FAQ pending, I'm sure.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 16, 2022 9:41:10 GMT -5
by current rules, you don't have to pay additional CP to give either primarch extra warlord traits like you have to do for anyone else. You pay your 1 CP to make them the warlord and they get their traits.
Seems pretty cut and dry, and unless GW explicitly says otherwise, this would be how I would rule it for tournaments.
paying 3 cp to make morty your warlord when he MUST be your warlord in a supreme command detachment is dumb. I won't rule it that way.
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 18, 2022 9:47:30 GMT -5
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 18, 2022 17:59:48 GMT -5
wow... that's some big changes... the dedicated transport one I was a little surprised at...and stranglehold being just gone...
there's a LOT going on with this book.
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Post by trantos01 on Jun 18, 2022 18:12:08 GMT -5
I am eager to see how they've modded the Necron secondaries. Because it sounds like they've changed things to the point I might actually think about taking ones other than Purge the Vermin once in a while.
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