|
Post by lightcavalier on Dec 22, 2022 9:30:31 GMT -5
www.warhammer-community.com/2022/12/22/arks-of-omen-grand-tournament-pack-a-new-detachment-for-the-next-season-of-warhammer-40000/New GT book, big changes Updated Missions, New Secondaries, and changes to army construction New Org Chart Costs 0 CP, no Command benefit Mandatory 1 HQ 3 troops OR elites or fast attack or heavy support or lords of war (if Knights no HQ required) Optional 0-9 Troops 0-3 Elites 0-3 Fast Attack 0-3 Heavy Support 0-3 LoW 0-3 HQ 0-2 Flyer 0-3 Fort 0-3 Elite (charachters only, so like Apothecary etc) Dedicated transport for every infantry unit (There are additional rules to cover off on Drukhari and Dark Angles) 0 CP to put units in strategic reserve New rules for allied detachments that also cost no CP and dont break your army Still paying for WL Trait and Relics 1CP to take 2 of something you normally could only take 1 of (like SM Captain) CP regen remains turn by turn, dedicated transports still need to start with a unit embarked Changes to when primary is scored IOT limit the 1st turn advantage More new secondary objectives, especially for some sub factions Balance dataslate and points update to be released digitally
|
|
|
Post by raceygaming on Dec 22, 2022 9:43:05 GMT -5
WOW that is a lot to unpack... Battle brothers are back and I really don't know how I feel about it. There was a time where allies were by far the most broken aspect of 40k and it cause so many headaches and doubled the amount of crazy combos.
I am hoping if they are going this route that there are some tight restrictions to check balances.
The new take what ever you want detachment is cool and will let more armies build in wacky ways while still have CP. I can see why the ork speed mob list is going into retirement in Jan when this comes out.
I will say that is alone has totally made my clubs champion list prep a lot harder. I thought I had my head wrapped around what I wanted to bring but this is a new can of worms.
Also while I might be in the minority here I am kind of disappointed to see new faction specific secondaries being added. I was really hoping for this season they would focus on making a really well balanced selection that everyone got access to. There is still a pretty big discrepancy between Have-Factions and Have-Nots when you look at good secondaries. When some armies can passive 80-85 pts and other need to table to get 70 it's causing an issues in any gaming/tournament set up that isn't just a straight W/L/D.
|
|
|
Post by dapperswain on Dec 22, 2022 11:11:43 GMT -5
I'll second what Frosty The Pirate said in the adjacent thread - What counts as ObSec in this will be super important. Being able to just... drop troops if they suck will be huge. My vague understanding of Votann is that their troops are terrible and their bikes are amazing and both are ObSec. You can put in the units from an Ork Speed Mob, but the bikes don't have ObSec anymore so it doesn't really work? Look at that thing. What the hell. Ol' James getting into the holiday whiskey and telling the kids to go play outside and do whatever they want.
|
|
|
Post by raceygaming on Dec 22, 2022 11:20:20 GMT -5
Also with the CP buy in to be able to duplicate a unit with a 0-1 restriction is pretty huge. Orks with 2-4 warboss again is going to be real nice. FSE for the Tau bring 3 commanders for 1 cp in a single detachment or TAU sept getting a pretty huge bump for 2 commanders.
Also Custodes not needing any infantry is pretty crazy, you want 6 dreads and some bikes, welcome to the show!
|
|
|
Post by cmcd on Dec 22, 2022 12:45:17 GMT -5
Also with the CP buy in to be able to duplicate a unit with a 0-1 restriction is pretty huge. Orks with 2-4 warboss again is going to be real nice. FSE for the Tau bring 3 commanders for 1 cp in a single detachment or TAU sept getting a pretty huge bump for 2 commanders. Also Custodes not needing any infantry is pretty crazy, you want 6 dreads and some bikes, welcome to the show! Thats not how that will work. its for units that are restricted to ONE. like only allowed to take 1 captain in a detachment. Now you can take two. Or only allowed to take 1 tau commander per detachment now you can take 2.
|
|
|
Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 22, 2022 13:00:07 GMT -5
Look at that thing. What the hell. Ol' James getting into the holiday whiskey and telling the kids to go play outside and do whatever they want. You know I'm into it. Detachment restrictions have never really proven an effective way of balancing the game given how arbitrary they are. If there's problem units and lists they can be addressed in the usual way (ie, Votann obsec bikes obsoleting troops), and non-comp players will just continue to take whatever they have/like anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 22, 2022 13:28:24 GMT -5
We'll have to wait until we see the mission pack. This much freedom to make your list means some really crazy stuff is coming.
Imagine they do this, but then give us missions where you get bonus points for killing your opponent's mandatory slot units, or only your mandatory units can do certain actions or objectives. Suddenly your entire battle strat can shift.
I'm 100% sure this is a tip of the iceberg reveal.
|
|
|
Post by dapperswain on Dec 22, 2022 14:03:43 GMT -5
Look at that thing. What the hell. Ol' James getting into the holiday whiskey and telling the kids to go play outside and do whatever they want. You know I'm into it. Detachment restrictions have never really proven an effective way of balancing the game given how arbitrary they are. If there's problem units and lists they can be addressed in the usual way (ie, Votann obsec bikes obsoleting troops), and non-comp players will just continue to take whatever they have/like anyway. I agree, and I like it. I'm just a new enough player to not know what's a good idea or not. I assumed the detachments were made for diversity, not balance. To keep armies interesting by restricting loading up on one option. Under this, I can make a Thousand Sons army that is a couple of HQs and forty Scarab Occult Terminators. Thinking more on this, it feels like this might be a dry run for 10th edition? This change absolutely lets me load up on AdMech fast attack options, which are the nicest looking models in the army. The only thing that stops me... is my wallet.
|
|
|
Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 22, 2022 14:11:49 GMT -5
Under this, I can make a Thousand Sons army that is a couple of HQs and forty Scarab Occult Terminators. The rule-of-three/two still exists (presumptively) so you still can't take the same dataslate as much as you want. You could definitely take 30 Occult Terminators, but you could do that before too. Thinking more on this, it feels like this might be a dry run for 10th edition? I doubt there will be "10th edition" as the way we've known the game. At this point 9th has already evolved into "10th", they've re-written more than half of the BRB via updates in the past two years. Missions, Secondaries, Army Construction, Several Core Rules. If anything, the seasons-based system makes "editions" of 40k obsolete. We're already playing a new "edition" every 6 months.
|
|
|
Post by mrmanstory on Dec 22, 2022 14:15:39 GMT -5
Hmm guess it's back to the drawing board with my club Champs list. No more 4 Dreads huh
|
|
|
Post by Typhus on Dec 22, 2022 14:53:59 GMT -5
Hmm guess it's back to the drawing board with my club Champs list. No more 4 Dreads huh 3 Mandatory Elites + 1 Optional Elite = 4 Dreadnoughts, no problem.
|
|
|
Post by mrmanstory on Dec 22, 2022 14:59:05 GMT -5
Hmm guess it's back to the drawing board with my club Champs list. No more 4 Dreads huh 3 Mandatory Elites + 1 Optional Elite = 4 Dreadnoughts, no problem. ohhhhh I get it so I take them as the 3 mandatory things then I can take 3 more but if I don't take them as the mandatory I only get 3?
|
|
|
Post by redshirt2375 on Dec 22, 2022 15:03:49 GMT -5
3 Mandatory Elites + 1 Optional Elite = 4 Dreadnoughts, no problem. ohhhhh I get it so I take them as the 3 mandatory things then I can take 3 more but if I don't take them as the mandatory I only get 3? You can take more than 3 as long as it's not 4 of the same Dreadnaught datasheet. So you can take 3 Regular Dreads and 1 Ironclad and be fine, but you couldn't take 4 regular Dreads or 4 Ironclads because that exceeds the "rule of 3" for 2K games
|
|
|
Post by mrmanstory on Dec 22, 2022 15:10:29 GMT -5
Yeah I figured rule of 3 was still there I think my brain just melted looking at the force org chart lol my list was a mix of Dreads anyway
|
|
|
Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 22, 2022 15:25:19 GMT -5
Under this, I can make a Thousand Sons army that is a couple of HQs and forty Scarab Occult Terminators. The rule-of-three/two still exists (presumptively) so you still can't take the same dataslate as much as you want. You could definitely take 30 Occult Terminators, but you could do that before too. Thinking more on this, it feels like this might be a dry run for 10th edition? I doubt there will be "10th edition" as the way we've known the game. At this point 9th has already evolved into "10th", they've re-written more than half of the BRB via updates in the past two years. Missions, Secondaries, Army Construction, Several Core Rules. If anything, the seasons-based system makes "editions" of 40k obsolete. We're already playing a new "edition" every 6 months. In theory perhaps but GW has too strong an incentive to force the release of a new edition in the traditional sense because it's a big sales spark and triggers a lot of players to return to the game to 'try out the new edition'. This is basically what happened with 3.0 Sigmar, it came out just because 'it was time' and gave them an excuse to reset the clock on army books and the like. Basically new editions exist for sales reasons not rules reasons, as long as GW is sticking to the book release rotation (as opposed to a true living rules set) there's no reason for that to change.
|
|