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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 5, 2023 10:17:46 GMT -5
Flamers without flamers? What will they think of next at least they're BS 3+ and have access to +1 to hit and rerolls so if you REALLY want them auto-hitting again you can do it if you invest the points... I mean most won't bother lol
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jan 5, 2023 10:47:28 GMT -5
I would think overwatch is where they suffer this nerf the most, right? Never played against them though.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 5, 2023 12:45:03 GMT -5
yep, the art of war guys were talking about this very thing, along with the video GW put up. The rough thing about flamers is that they flamer you, then if you charge them to kill them in combat (where they have a 6+ save only!) they roast you on the way in. So people had to devote two units to get rid of them, a sacrifice charge and something else that could take them out in melee. So often the flamer unit was killing two units - VERY efficient. Now they'll still do damage (although average about 3 hits less each) but then they're not essentially immune to counter attack.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jan 5, 2023 13:40:02 GMT -5
It does the job but it's a little strange to break the 'flame weapons auto hit' rule for balance reasons. They probably... should just have done less damage lol
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Post by cmcd on Jan 5, 2023 14:06:40 GMT -5
I just gained 130 points for my clubs list. Hmm. Also with decreasing Necron Warriors to 11 points, and the new force org you can fit 175 necron warriors in a list.
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Post by mrmanstory on Jan 5, 2023 14:13:53 GMT -5
I just gained 130 points for my clubs list. Hmm. Also with decreasing Necron Warriors to 11 points, and the new force org you can fit 175 necron warriors in a list. Chris you're a mad man but I like your thinking lol
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 5, 2023 14:20:34 GMT -5
art of war are doing a deep dive on the changes: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TYWuRwsfcw&ab_channel=ArtofWar40ktheir reaction on the votann changes was pretty much mine... but they said "who cares, we don't have to take the troops anymore, you'll never see hearthkyn on the table" so votann players will just pay for these nerfs by dropping troops.. the thing they were incentivizing other armies taking by point cuts. If the Hearthkyn would have went down in points (lets face it, they're not exactly a powerful choice) it might have toned down some of the stuff they actually wanted to. as is I'll just take bikes: higher toughness, same save, same amount of wounds, faster, still obsec, way better shooting, and a strat that gives -1 to be hit - and significantly cheaper!
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Post by harryf on Jan 5, 2023 14:23:40 GMT -5
There's no point costs listed for dozer blade under Leman Russ (non-commanders), does this mean the Russes get free dozer blades?
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jan 5, 2023 14:33:39 GMT -5
art of war are doing a deep dive on the changes: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TYWuRwsfcw&ab_channel=ArtofWar40ktheir reaction on the votann changes was pretty much mine... but they said "who cares, we don't have to take the troops anymore, you'll never see hearthkyn on the table" so votann players will just pay for these nerfs by dropping troops.. the thing they were incentivizing other armies taking by point cuts. If the Hearthkyn would have went down in points (lets face it, they're not exactly a powerful choice) it might have toned down some of the stuff they actually wanted to. as is I'll just take bikes: higher toughness, same save, same amount of wounds, faster, still obsec, way better shooting, and a strat that gives -1 to be hit - and significantly cheaper! Hot take: giving obsec to non-troop units is virtually always a mistake. I say this as a DA player who benefitted from 'everything is obsec' detachments for years.
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Post by mrmanstory on Jan 5, 2023 14:43:56 GMT -5
No armour of contempt makes my 60 termagaunt list even better. How did GW temp me back to my bugs by nerfing them lol
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Post by lightcavalier on Jan 5, 2023 14:50:16 GMT -5
There's no point costs listed for dozer blade under Leman Russ (non-commanders), does this mean the Russes get free dozer blades? Yes
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 5, 2023 15:02:39 GMT -5
No armour of contempt makes my 60 termagaunt list even better. How did GW temp me back to my bugs by nerfing them lol 70 point zoans is ludicrous, especially after their leviathan nerf. I honestly see no reason to ever field more than a token 3 for the synaptic imperative, but even then, why not just include an extra 200 point unit instead? gants made out better than most so I think that list got WAY more viable. (stares at two flyrants, two neuros, 10 zoans on shelf) - yikes.... I mean, most of my nid lists I'm just dropping my troops (warriors) altogether to pay for the nerfs. I mean 45 points for a tyranid warrior with deathspitter/boneswords is just NOT worth it... that's like 12 points MORE than a thunder hammer storm shield terminator. Don't actually think you'll see warriors on the table again. Which sucks because they were garbage for SO long, then got good... then got nerfed to "usable kinda" then got nerfed to "NOPE".
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Post by mrmanstory on Jan 5, 2023 15:16:33 GMT -5
I'm hoping some of nids earlier nerfs that were unnecessary get rolled back next dataslate. Like why can't I pick my ADAPTIVE trait when I know what I'm facing that's so thematic. Oh well guess I'll get back to painting my gaunts. Also it all get better except the reaper tyrant so he's getting dropped for a foot tyrant for sure
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Post by cmcd on Jan 5, 2023 15:20:00 GMT -5
I'm hoping some of nids earlier nerfs that were unnecessary get rolled back next dataslate. Like why can't I pick my ADAPTIVE trait when I know what I'm facing that's so thematic. Oh well guess I'll get back to painting my gaunts. Also it all get better except the reaper tyrant so he's getting dropped for a fot tyrant for sure If you want more gaunts i have a bunch (assembled, not primed).
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Post by trantos01 on Jan 5, 2023 19:33:46 GMT -5
Let's see what's changed. Necrons: Tomb blades 20->18 Praetorians 22->20 D.Ark 160->145 (If you want people to buy this GW just fix the gun instead of making it cheaper) Ghost Ark 130->115 Monolith 300->270 Obelisk 300->270 T.Vault 400->360 Warriors 13->11 Deathmarks 15->13
Votann Kahl 80->90 E.Champion 110->120 Grimnyr 90->100 Warriors 12->13 Berserks 30->33 Thunderkyn 40->35 Fortress 300->310
So my Votann list goes up by 70 points as is but I can get back that can more by dropping one of the three warrior squads.
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