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Post by Typhus on Jan 7, 2023 1:56:38 GMT -5
I'm not convinced.
I don't think Death Guard are in a great spot, but I'd probably put them in mid-tier at this point. Armour of Contempt was always something of a double-edged sword for Death Guard - it made the 4+ invulnerable save of their Terminators largely redundant, and neutered their mass AP-2 offense. Death Guard are completely reliant on rerolling wound rolls for offense, and several subfactions just lost that as a trait, opening up a few more matchups.
That said, they're still completely dead in the water against Votann.
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Updates
Jan 7, 2023 2:43:15 GMT -5
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Post by mrmanstory on Jan 7, 2023 2:43:15 GMT -5
I'm not convinced. I don't think Death Guard are in a great spot, but I'd probably put them in mid-tier at this point. Armour of Contempt was always something of a double-edged sword for Death Guard - it made the 4+ invulnerable save of their Terminators largely redundant, and neutered their mass AP-2 offense. Death Guard are completely reliant on rerolling wound rolls for offense, and several subfactions just lost that as a trait, opening up a few more matchups. That said, they're still completely dead in the water against Votann. I agree with literally every point you made. I will say it'll be nice that my blightlords will be a bit more effective against power armor. I think AoC and the new Detachment completely neutered plague marines. Is 190 points for worth it for That 10 man block that dies much easier now? Especially when at least in my eyes you have to take a rhino for them. I'm not sure
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Updates
Jan 7, 2023 2:56:43 GMT -5
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Post by brujonation on Jan 7, 2023 2:56:43 GMT -5
well, yeah it hit csm survivability but in some cases the ap 1 / ap 2 stuff is relevant again both ranged and melee. and now, a squad of 10 chosen, Mark or khorne and icon, on the charge are hitting with 35x s6 ap4 attacks, plus 2 pwr fists (6x str9 ap4 ithink?) also becomes a bit nicer, in some matchups. I mean the same works with the loyalists, but im just trying to see a brighter side rofl.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 7, 2023 8:57:22 GMT -5
csm are far from worst army in the game right now. They've been putting up consistently solid results at GT's and to say that's due to AOC is not really accurate if you look at the lists that have been winning. plague marines with their free wargear and now even cheaper per model are also a solid choice.
I think people were leaning on AOC being a "fix" but it really wasn't. It boosted sisters more than anyone, and you can tell with the marine results before and after AOC hit that it just didn't do what it was designed to do. It made a large swath of weaponry useless.
death guard may not have gotten the benefits of marines here, but we all know they weren't in the same spot as marines at all. All their terminator types aren't really affected by this, and getting obsec added in on their best units is hardly a downgrade! You can now strategic reserve Morty for free. The bombers / planes have been nerfed. Some of their biggest competition (harlies and nids) have been nerfed hard and all Votann got from this was another points nerf making them have even less on the table.
I think the outlook for chaos of all types is pretty good. But I think no one knows for sure what is going to happen until we have a month or two of games to see how this all shakes out.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jan 7, 2023 11:54:06 GMT -5
It's not just AoC for CSM though is it? Instead of the heaps of points discounts marines got a bunch of their top performing options got targeted nerfs. All those high performing lists need to be re-evaluated if they relied on elements that are now significantly worse (creations of bile was gutted, slaanesh termies got double tapped, even ol' Crutchaddon went up in points)
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 7, 2023 16:47:39 GMT -5
yes, but we are WAY too early to know the outcome of these changes. Am I stoked about the kicks to nids? not really. Do I get it from a game balance perspective? yep. Even if 70 point zoanthropes is dumb as hell, (they could have dealt with their problem just by changing their rules to improve smite) but they had to do something I realize that.
lets get some games in with chaos, death guard, nids and harlies and lets see what the outcome is!
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Post by cmcd on Jan 7, 2023 17:12:02 GMT -5
lets get some games in with chaos, death guard, nids and harlies and lets see what the outcome is! I like
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 15, 2023 13:38:05 GMT -5
battle scribe updated
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