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Post by trantos01 on Mar 23, 2023 18:58:46 GMT -5
Still working through all the info given but here are some rambling highlights.
-Psychic powers will apparently be activated in the phase that they pertain to, Smite in shooting phase, buff/debuff in command phase etc.
-Morale phase is going away and it won't cost you units anymore (and there was much rejoicing). Instead 'battle shock' is going to be a thing in the command phase and my guess is that it will result in the unit being unable to do certain things and/or getting a debuff.
-No force organization charts and mandatory units anymore. Just pick a faction, HQ, don't go over three copies of a unit and you can go wild. Opens up the door for fun/narrative lists where you don't have to spend points on mandatory-but-unwanted units.
-Far fewer stratagems in play (and fewer CP apparently). It was mentioned that the 'universal' strats (reroll a die, autopass morale etc) are going to be expanded while we're only getting six (I think) others based on our faction. And while they haven't given a ton of info, it seems that you'll swap out your six faction strats for a different set if you take a sub-faction.
So you might be able to take 'generic' Marine/Guard/Tyranid/Necron/Votann etc strats but if you go as Black Templar, Cadia, Leviathan, Ymyr etc, you swap out your faction strats for a different set.
Will hopefully reduce the number of 'gotcha' moments when somebody pulls out an obscure strat for a rare situation.
-Baked in abilities for units that apparently will incentivize varied armies. There will be a bunch of datasheets with 'single use' abilities meaning that even if you have multiple iterations of the unit, you can only use the ability once per turn/phase/whatever.
-I do like how BS/WS have been moved from the main stat-line to where they matter. It also means that you can have individual/personalized chances to hit for each weapon. Which is really important for weapons like thunder hammers etc that previously had -1 to hit. But now if they make such weapons on marines 4+ to hit naturaly (while combat knives etc are 3+) it means that they're potential targets for to-hit debuffs. Beucase with the max of +/-1, weapons with in-built penalities were always immune to that sort of debuff.
-Toughness changes: Seems like they might be trying to nerf the 'good against everything' guns (IE plasma and such). Be interesting if this takes monsters and vehicles closer to how they were in 7th where shooting a bunch of bolters at a tank was not a viable method of damaging it to any real degree.
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Post by StepwisePilot on Mar 23, 2023 20:19:19 GMT -5
Huh. No force organization may make me consider trying to make a 40K army again a higher priority, once I'm done my current projects and such.
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Post by brujonation on Mar 24, 2023 7:27:56 GMT -5
Oh man, I just kinda gotten / figured it how 9th worked lol.
I like how the initial release will have free and digital and online rules with indexes. At least this time around there will be "balanced" rules for all factions that have been reworked from the start. and I won't need to wait until nearly the end of the edition to actually get some updated rules (csm).
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Post by dave on Mar 24, 2023 7:57:43 GMT -5
I'll give it a shot. I really enjoyed 8th despite the issues, but quickly found 9th was not for me.
I have a couple of 9th ed codexes I'll never actually get to play a game with, but I really don't mind. That money is gone, and if the game didn't have a pretty big shakeup, I probably wouldn't be looking at it again anyway. As someone who started playing at the launch of 8th, index hammer is the best time to learn the game.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 24, 2023 8:08:28 GMT -5
9th was probably one of my favourite versions of the game, 4th was the best in my mind - but that was mainly because I could have build-a-bear custom carnifexes which was super fun.
Arks of Omen makes SO much sense now that we've seen how "force org" is going to work. Essentially just a rule of three, and you have to have an HQ to lead your forces. That kind of flexibility is pretty unheard of in this game. getting completely rid of stratagem bloat is the #1 complaint of 9th so I'm glad they listened.
Along with morale being renamed "battleshock" there's some definite AOS vibes going on here. Maybe there'll be a chance someday I won't confuse the rules of the two systems if they get more and more similar lol.
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Post by raceygaming on Mar 24, 2023 8:49:23 GMT -5
9th was probably one of my favourite versions of the game, 4th was the best in my mind - but that was mainly because I could have build-a-bear custom carnifexes which was super fun. Arks of Omen makes SO much sense now that we've seen how "force org" is going to work. Essentially just a rule of three, and you have to have an HQ to lead your forces. That kind of flexibility is pretty unheard of in this game. getting completely rid of stratagem bloat is the #1 complaint of 9th so I'm glad they listened. Along with morale being renamed "battleshock" there's some definite AOS vibes going on here. Maybe there'll be a chance someday I won't confuse the rules of the two systems if they get more and more similar lol. Ya I think it will be good to see the rumors of 3 WLT, 3 relics, 8 strats per faction. So in any game there are only going to be 6-10 realistic being played. The flat 3 of anything and a hq is also good for balance. Elites can feel elite but can't be spammed. So easier internal balance might come of it.
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Post by voodoo on Mar 24, 2023 9:12:44 GMT -5
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Post by Khalai on Mar 24, 2023 9:57:23 GMT -5
That Q&A didn't really add much other than confirming the new edition is being completely built from the ground up.
I'll freely admit I don't have a lot of experience with 9th. The rules bloat was out of hand to the point that I ended up avoiding playing on the rare occasion I could because I don't like playing feeling like I don't know the environment. I just didn't have the time to keep up with everything.
Simplifying things sounds great from my perspective, makes it easier to jump back in from a break. Less to catch up on. Less to learn. Makes me really happy. There was a lot of needless complexity from the current edition, though I think the depth was good. Needless complexity bad imo.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 24, 2023 10:15:06 GMT -5
the worst thing about the rules bloat of 9th was that you still only used maybe 5-6 strats during a game... but you had to wade through pages of useless / niche strats to find them! This was the edition I put flags in all my books for the relevant parts because a LOT of the book's rules were just needless complication. Don't even get me started with the campaign books you had to buy for two pages of rules that were then invalidated shortly afterwards (side eye at Belakor)
I'd rather have six useful strats, and some core ones that everyone can use! These changes make me happy... okay GW let's see if you can keep my happiness up lol
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Mar 24, 2023 10:19:30 GMT -5
There were periods of 9th where I had fun but it was just so hard to actually keep on top of. It was like playing an MMO you had to be fully immersed in the constant stream of updates and every army took a ton of practice to execute on.
I liked how attentive they were to balance changes but the way the rules were distributed and an almost uninterrupted deluge of power creep plus the high complexity in the second half was really rough.
Also I am all for the two games using the same terminology for stuff that is essentially interchangeable. I constantly call command traits warlord traits, or artefacts relics. I've been calling 40k morale battleshock from day one lol. It's not like this is without precedent 40k took most of its terminology from WHFB in the first place.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 24, 2023 10:19:53 GMT -5
oooh... USR's are back! Been saying this for a long time to bring this back! (are GW monitoring me? nids in a starter box, making rules simpler and returning to USR's and less strats? I think they might be) changing the way that monsters and vehicles degrade is interesting... anxious to see what they're planning there.
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Post by voodoo on Mar 24, 2023 10:32:16 GMT -5
oooh... USR's are back! Been saying this for a long time to bring this back! (are GW monitoring me? nids in a starter box, making rules simpler and returning to USR's and less strats? I think they might be) changing the way that monsters and vehicles degrade is interesting... anxious to see what they're planning there. Maybe because everything is done by the weapon now; and the top blocks are "stationary" it'll be changes to how well or hard it hits and/or the number of shots provided by ranged weapons.
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Post by LizardTau on Mar 24, 2023 11:04:36 GMT -5
One thing I'm skeptical about is that they say "your models aren't going anywhere" you will have lots of options.
They have said stuff like that before and took away models putting them as legends and/or taking away options from models like my blood angels Chaplin with power sword.
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Post by question on Mar 24, 2023 11:18:58 GMT -5
I am both very interested and genuinely hopeful for 10th.
That being said, I also believe in both "grain of salt" and "show me". We all know, based on precedent, that GW will both overstate and thoroughly screw up something important. Probably more than one thing. We also know the rules abusers are always out there, prepared to generate reams of FAQs. I've always assumed this is deliberate and for their own twisted amusement. Screwing people out of game wins is secondary. So be prepared for more of same old, same old. And knowing this makes me grateful for Kingston's gaming community, where we have to deal with relatively little of that crap.
But it IS always fun to see a new edition come out. I know we are only on day 2 but I'm looking forward to months of entertainment, which is the positive side of same old, same old. Loads of speculation makes it a kind of internet casino, waiting to see who's bet pays off. And that's before we get in to all the new models. I know I'm going to cave and pick up the new Lion. I may also indulge in some self-delusion about not adding to my tower of shame but that will last only a hot minute after release if I'm being honest.
So let's sit back, speculate our asses off, and enjoy the ride. Beverages & snacks of your choice on hand at all times of course.
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Post by voodoo on Mar 24, 2023 11:54:01 GMT -5
@chris & Randy, I know you're not fond of the prospect... but from a completionist standpoint, can you really pass up the opportunity to never have played a game in every edition? I mean, I'm sure you can squeeze in a 500 point rumble quickly enough before the end of the summer.
"Played every edition" is one of those streaks I'd have a hard time passing me by. As it is, I've only ever not played the inagural "Rogue Trader" edition, as I started at the tail end of 2nd ed.
I do 100% agree we'll see a bunch of mass speculation followed by GW's rhetoric that'll hopefully calm down the neckbearding.
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