ItsBird
Warrior
Pigeon, She/they
Posts: 183
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Post by ItsBird on Jun 13, 2023 10:07:23 GMT -5
looks like lord discordants are still going to be meta staples. They toned down their melee a fair bit but corrupt machine spirit turning off vehicle shooting is pretty big.
My boy lucius is looking really swaggy. giving his unit fights first 😍 shame he cant run with some chosen but honestly its probably for the best he cant.
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Post by mrmanstory on Jun 13, 2023 13:49:42 GMT -5
Hmm I already liked 10 blightlords with a lord of virulence but now it’s actually looking pretty spicy! Exciting
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ItsBird
Warrior
Pigeon, She/they
Posts: 183
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Post by ItsBird on Jun 13, 2023 15:39:17 GMT -5
Abaddon gives the unit he's leading (terminators) all of his keywords right?
Does that mean that the termies get access to the benefits of all of the Marks too?
That seems absolutely wild
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 13, 2023 16:02:51 GMT -5
Abaddon gives the unit he's leading (terminators) all of his keywords right? Does that mean that the termies get access to the benefits of all of the Marks too? That seems absolutely wild When you are spending that many points, and can't attach anything else, I don't see it being that terrible
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Post by cmcd on Jun 13, 2023 17:27:37 GMT -5
Abaddon gives the unit he's leading (terminators) all of his keywords right? Does that mean that the termies get access to the benefits of all of the Marks too? That seems absolutely wild I think the attached unit still counts as seperate for keywords. I have been digging through rules to find a answer. I cant. I dont think units share keywords. And that is based on the fact that when you pick your warlord that character gains the keyword WARLORD. It doesnt make sense if then the Attached bodyguard unit also gains the WARLORD keyword. Terminators need to pick one Mark, but Abbadon can attach to any mark.
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Post by Typhus on Jun 13, 2023 23:09:15 GMT -5
Abaddon gives the unit he's leading (terminators) all of his keywords right? Does that mean that the termies get access to the benefits of all of the Marks too? That seems absolutely wild I think the attached unit still counts as seperate for keywords. I have been digging through rules to find a answer. I cant. I dont think units share keywords. And that is based on the fact that when you pick your warlord that character gains the keyword WARLORD. It doesnt make sense if then the Attached bodyguard unit also gains the WARLORD keyword. Terminators need to pick one Mark, but Abbadon can attach to any mark. If that is the case, then the Tyranid detachment ability can functionally never give the Precision keyword. To quote: " Hive PredatorsEach time a Tyranids model with this Hyper-adaptation makes an attack that targets an enemy Character unit, if a Critical Hit is scored, that attack has the [PRECISION] ability." If the attached Character doesn't share his Character keyword with the unit, then the ability nothing in 99% of cases. I think the intent is clear that a unit consists of all of the keywords of any attached Characters plus the unit itself. FAQ pending, Abaddon and his unit of Terminators benefit from all 5 abilities whenever they perform a Dark Pact.
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Post by nekekami on Jun 14, 2023 0:12:18 GMT -5
I haven't looked at all the relevant indexes yet, but I can say that there is a very clear distinction between Model and Unit when reading abilities on the new index cards. (Most) Enhancements are very much only intended to boost the Characters they're given to, but any ability that says 'Unit' very much does apply to the unit a Leader is attached to (or vice-versa, can say I have had to read things a few times now seeing how my Leaders can benefit from the units they join. Game changer, really).
Leaders also don't impart Keywords to units they join, if that clears anything up.
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 14, 2023 4:56:54 GMT -5
I haven't looked at all the relevant indexes yet, but I can say that there is a very clear distinction between Model and Unit when reading abilities on the new index cards. (Most) Enhancements are very much only intended to boost the Characters they're given to, but any ability that says 'Unit' very much does apply to the unit a Leader is attached to (or vice-versa, can say I have had to read things a few times now seeing how my Leaders can benefit from the units they join. Game changer, really). Leaders also don't impart Keywords to units they join, if that clears anything up. A unit has every keyword of all models in that unit But Models who don't have a keyword don't gain keywords from other models This is why anti-psyker or anti-charahter work against a psyker and their bodyguard because the UNIT has the psyker keyword The rule for Marks says "each time a unit..." and makes no mention of a requirement for all models in the unit to have a specific mark (though that will happen anyway aside from abbadon due to other rules) As such any unit with abbadon in it has all the keywords required to pop off all the mark benefits aw long as Abby is present
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Post by voodoo on Jun 14, 2023 6:34:10 GMT -5
I feel like CHaos Knights got gutted pretty hard. The relics are all fairly worthless, and their faction ability is going to be largely ignored by many armies out there. Depending on how Imperial Knights look in their index, it might be time to cross over the aisle for a bit until the actual codex drops.
I have to say I'm also really disappointed in the limited number of units I can attach characters to. Terminator Sorcerers stock in trade just went through the roof as the only unit in the codex that can attach to Scarab Occults. Every other character is Rubrics only, which after seeing the marine codex is a real slap in the face. Some decent relics in the Sons, but it's largely going to be another boring army to play, whereby you walk up the field and mortal spam your opponent into oblivion with the million Devastating Wound mind bullets spewing from your army.
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 14, 2023 7:36:05 GMT -5
For T. Sons Magnus looks pretty solid, all pyschic attacks +1 to hit/wound on everything, 4 Kabal points, Can hide behind stuff, pretty tough and can sit in -1 damage on the turn he makes his big move.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 14, 2023 7:41:13 GMT -5
As far as I can see, they actually put a lot of thought into what leaders can attach to what units. (despite people being pissed) as it counters some potential death stars.
The apothecaries not being able to attach to terminators seems quite intentional for example.
The neurotyrant being only able to attach to tyrant guard or those stupid little brain bugs appears intentional, as even though visually it would make SENSE for it to attach to zoanthropes, when you look at the index you realize "yeah that would be pretty busted".
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drew
Warrior
Posts: 273
Member is Online
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Post by drew on Jun 14, 2023 8:47:04 GMT -5
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Post by cmcd on Jun 14, 2023 10:14:18 GMT -5
I think the attached unit still counts as seperate for keywords. I have been digging through rules to find a answer. I cant. I dont think units share keywords. And that is based on the fact that when you pick your warlord that character gains the keyword WARLORD. It doesnt make sense if then the Attached bodyguard unit also gains the WARLORD keyword. Terminators need to pick one Mark, but Abbadon can attach to any mark. If that is the case, then the Tyranid detachment ability can functionally never give the Precision keyword. To quote: " Hive PredatorsEach time a Tyranids model with this Hyper-adaptation makes an attack that targets an enemy Character unit, if a Critical Hit is scored, that attack has the [PRECISION] ability." If the attached Character doesn't share his Character keyword with the unit, then the ability nothing in 99% of cases. I think the intent is clear that a unit consists of all of the keywords of any attached Characters plus the unit itself. FAQ pending, Abaddon and his unit of Terminators benefit from all 5 abilities whenever they perform a Dark Pact. What? that has nothing to do with keywords? Nore what im talking about. [PRECISION] is a weapon ABILITY. Not a unit keyword. IF your talking about the Character keyword... Give me a minute. didnt think i needed to explain this.
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ItsBird
Warrior
Pigeon, She/they
Posts: 183
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Post by ItsBird on Jun 14, 2023 10:16:38 GMT -5
Kind of sad that Kyganil and Stern can't both attack in the same turn Points pending they might actually be good! I doubt it tho. Aestred Thurga might actually see play! thats wild considering last edition all she did was be slightly better in crusade. Dev wounds is a spicy ability tho and so is improving miracle dice. of course her grandma can't also attack. sad. Palentine seems good with novitiates. Sacresants aren't 2+ 4++ anymore very sad you can't stack and Imagifier with another HQ but with Junith Eruita them getting -1 to be hit and wounded seems very heart eyes and makes up for the lost save. It's a good day to have 10 of them.
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 14, 2023 10:44:49 GMT -5
If that is the case, then the Tyranid detachment ability can functionally never give the Precision keyword. To quote: " Hive PredatorsEach time a Tyranids model with this Hyper-adaptation makes an attack that targets an enemy Character unit, if a Critical Hit is scored, that attack has the [PRECISION] ability." If the attached Character doesn't share his Character keyword with the unit, then the ability nothing in 99% of cases. I think the intent is clear that a unit consists of all of the keywords of any attached Characters plus the unit itself. FAQ pending, Abaddon and his unit of Terminators benefit from all 5 abilities whenever they perform a Dark Pact. What? that has nothing to do with keywords? Nore what im talking about. [PRECISION] is a weapon ABILITY. Not a unit keyword. IF your talking about the Character keyword... Give me a minute. didnt think i needed to explain this. His po8nt is that if bodyguard and leader unit don't collectively share keywords, then you would never be able to proc the hive Predator ability....because you can't target a leader in a bodyguard unit, and the bodyguard does not natively have the character keyword Iot hive Predators to work units with leaders must have all the keywords of both the leader and the bodyguard
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