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Post by dapperswain on Jun 14, 2023 10:46:21 GMT -5
So... The AdMech index is bad. Really bad. Like we've passed the Hanlon's Razor event horizon from stupidity into actual malice.
The primary mechanic across the index is giving a bonus to units is if they're near Battleline units - which are Skitarii Rangers and Vanguard. However, I have to say that Rangers and Vanguard are quite bad now.
Skitarii unit size is exactly ten. No more five unit MSU or twenty unit bricks. Skitarii shooting profiles and survivability have been made worse, even considering global changes going into 10th. Given the small unit size and poor performance, Skitarii aren't a unit where I really want to invest in leaders or stratagems.
The rad bombardment detachment rule is terrible. I held out some hope for abilities or strategems to drop a unit into the opponent's vacated deployment zone. There's nothing that supports that kind of move.
The army wide Doctrina Imperatives buff hits about 60% of units. It doesn't really matter though - I'm probably going to sit in one Doctrina the whole game and flip a unit to the one alternate choice using the Skitarii Marshal HQ upgrade. Good luck remembering who gets Doctrina buffs and what Doctrina most units are in.
No transport has Firing Deck. Also, no Assault Ramp for Ruststalkers, but that doesn't matter because Ruststalker melee has been dumpstered as well.
There are some good datasheets in here. Sulphurhounds aren't bad - dealing mortal wounds on charge. But overall this is a stankpile of an index and I'm happy I have a couple more armies to paint in the meantime.
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Post by cmcd on Jun 14, 2023 11:36:47 GMT -5
What? that has nothing to do with keywords? Nore what im talking about. [PRECISION] is a weapon ABILITY. Not a unit keyword. IF your talking about the Character keyword... Give me a minute. didnt think i needed to explain this. His po8nt is that if bodyguard and leader unit don't collectively share keywords, then you would never be able to proc the hive Predator ability....because you can't target a leader in a bodyguard unit, and the bodyguard does not natively have the character keyword Iot hive Predators to work units with leaders must have all the keywords of both the leader and the bodyguard K. Keywords. First off I see the issue. I think the issue is with HIVE PREDATORS and that it should say Attached units not Character units. But. Ill explain. Your logic does not make sense. IF that was the case than you can not target any units that have the character keyword. Your saying if a character is attached to a Bodyguard unit then the body guard unit would share the character keyword. ATTACHED UNITS Some Character units have the Leader ability (pg 39), which lets them merge with other units (known as Bodyguard units) to form an Attached unit. Each time an attack successfully wounds an Attached unit, that attack cannot be allocated to a Character model in that unit, even if that Character model has lost one or more wounds or has already had attacks allocated to it this phase." If that attached unit gain the character keyword then all models in that unit would be characters and no wounds could be allocated to any models unless that weapon had the precision ability. To further this "Weapons with [PRECISION] in their profile are known as Precision weapons. Each time an attack made with such a weapon successfully wounds an Attached unit (pg 39), if a Character model in that unit is visible to the attacking model, the attacking model’s player can choose to have that attack allocated to that Character model instead of following the normal attack sequence." I think instead of looking at other rules. Look at the mark of chaos. If a unit does not have a mark. You get to pick one. SO. The terminators gain lets say in this example Mark of Khorne. A Character unit with the Leader ability can only be attached to a Bodyguard unit if both of those units share one of the same keywords from the list above. In this case Abaddon has all the marks. So he can be a leader for this unit. When a dark pact is made. make the attacks. with either [lethal hits] or [SUSTAINED HITS 1], then take a leadership test on a 5+. with the Marks of Chaos. "Each time a unit with one of these keywords makes a Dark Pact, it gains the associated ability below until the end of the phase. To the Khorne Terminators gain Blood fury. Abaddon gains all of them. The reverse of this also does not make sense. By your logic all the Terminators also gain EPIC HERO keyword and ABADDON THE DESPOILER Keyword. You trying to tell me that you have a unit of 11 Abaddons? They don't share keywords. An attached unit = Bodyguard unit + Character Unit. NOW I do think that the terminators can use Abbadons Marks. For example. Chaos Undivided Glory to Chaos: Each time a model in this unit makes an attack, re-roll a Hit roll of 1. All units Terminators and Abaddon would benefit because they are the same unit. "While a Bodyguard unit contains a Leader, it is known as an Attached unit and, with the exception of rules that are triggered when units are destroyed (pg 12), it is treated as a single unit for all rules purposes." So To recap. The terminators would gain access to all the different marks through abaddon while he is attached to the unit. BUT they do not share keywords.
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 14, 2023 11:50:09 GMT -5
My point always was that the UNIT has the keywords of both the models in the unit and the leader.
Never argued that the models in the unit gain the keywords.
This is because thet are a "single unit for all rules purposes"
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 14, 2023 11:54:32 GMT -5
As such if a unit has a keyword, it is affected by abilities that interact with it
So Abaddon + 10 termites can gain all 5 mark benefits becausethe questuon is "does this unit have keyword X" the unit being the combinationof abbadon and friends
Then abbadon + 10 termies are also affected by rules such as "anti-charachter" (which triggers when wounding a UNIT, before wounds are assigned to models)
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 14, 2023 11:57:04 GMT -5
If my interpretation is not correct then rules like Anti Charachter and Anti Psyker basically do nothing 75% of the time
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 14, 2023 12:05:50 GMT -5
Scale it back to a less complicated example
Is a Rubric Marine Squad a psyker unit (ie a unit w the psyker keyword) if only the aspiring sorcerer has that keyword?
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Post by voodoo on Jun 14, 2023 12:27:02 GMT -5
They're not, it specifically states in the sheet that:
Keywords - All Models: Infantry, Battleline, Chaos, Tzeentch, Rubric Marines // Aspiring Sorcerer: Psyker
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 14, 2023 12:35:37 GMT -5
They're not, it specifically states in the sheet that: Keywords - All Models: Infantry, Battleline, Chaos, Tzeentch, Rubric Marines // Aspiring Sorcerer: Psyker Right but when I go to use "anti-psyker" the question is does the target UNIT have the psyker key word If the unit has a model in it with they keyword, does they unit not have the keyword? The. Readon only the sorcerer has the keywords is so that when he dies they loose it
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Post by Typhus on Jun 14, 2023 12:49:53 GMT -5
Indeed. There's a conflation in the thread between units having keywords, and models having keywords. Rubric Marines are a PSYKER unit until their Sorcerer is destroyed.
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Post by voodoo on Jun 14, 2023 13:44:52 GMT -5
Easily handled by FAQ/Errata because Grey Knight units have no such distinction. It'd make them much less survivable to anti-psyker, and Sons much more if it's ruled that models don't confer keywords to units.
Also cleans up the broken interaction with Abby plus termies that has everyone up in arms (either for/against)
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Post by Typhus on Jun 14, 2023 17:52:47 GMT -5
Very consistent and good.
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 14, 2023 18:01:03 GMT -5
Well the world eater blocked the firing holes on principle, to make room for stabbing holes.
The others I don't know what they got up to...
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jun 14, 2023 18:32:52 GMT -5
Rare DG W
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Post by mrmanstory on Jun 14, 2023 19:45:54 GMT -5
Very happy with the imperial knights index. Shouldn’t take way too long just to explain what 6 models do every game now! I also like that the valiant and castellan actually seem like they have a place in an army either pushing up with warglaives or sitting back with helverins giving admirers cover. They do seem still incredibly point at something and delete it. In an edition where the lethality is supposed to be decreased I’m hoping that doesn’t make them too much.
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drew
Warrior
Posts: 273
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Post by drew on Jun 15, 2023 8:18:09 GMT -5
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