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Post by nekekami on Dec 6, 2011 18:21:45 GMT -5
In tournament formats like the one we're proposing here, soft scores and comp have everything to do with the gameplay, as opposed to a format like 'Ard Boyz, which we all know throws those ideas out the window.
If you look at the Astronomi-con scoring system, you have all of these:
78 points - Game Play 60 points - Sportsmanship 30 points - Appearance 20 points - Composition 10 points - Army List 2 points - Bonus for submitting your Army List prior to the event.
And as you can see, the majority of your points comes from soft scores, as opposed to how many people you smash over the course of the tournament. That's both comp and self policing, since things like Sportsmanship is dependant on your opponent; That's what's being voted on here, and not just a simple Win/Loss counter - and if it's not, then apparently I need some clarification.
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Post by calitom on Dec 6, 2011 18:26:38 GMT -5
I wasn't sure if he was talking about the scoring system being exactly the same, but more the composition / army list portion of it was what was being discussed here (at least that's what I got from it). So yeah, not really sure on that- I wasn't even suggesting a win/loss counter, but if you look at it- 30 points have to deal with your army list itself. Sportsmanship isn't your army list, it's how you play the game. How pleasant you are to play with at the tabletop, and a low score would show how rude / impolite or negative you were at the table... at least that's how I've always viewed sportsmanship, perhaps it's different from what I read about at the other big tournaments?
The soft scores were appearance and sportsmanship for the local tournaments last I checked- to which we'd be adding in Comp. From your last post it seemed like you were suggesting we didn't need comp, but someone with a competitive list would get 0's for sportsmanship across the board.
More to clarify. Let's say I score 70 on game play, 30 on Appearance, 19/20 on Comp and 10/10 for army list. Where in does the list that I have impact my sportmanship total? The army list I am bringing would already be covered under comp / army list, so why would I be penalized for it in a second scoring system as well? That's how I read it from your previous post is why perhaps I need clarification if that was what you were suggesting.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 6, 2011 18:40:26 GMT -5
Which is why one version of the comp system that notably doesn't work is when your opponent grades you on army comp after the matchup... if you just got your backside handed to you, it's hard to swallow the pride and say "I got outplayed"... it's alot easier to blame the dice... blame the scenario... or blame your opponent for bringing an OP list (while yours was super friendly of course!)... chipmunking someone unfortunately happens... sometimes it's just too easy to take that little bit of revenge... so let's take it out of the equation. I think for any decent comp scoring it needs to be: 1. impartial - ie: not decided by the person you just BEAT to say how fair your list was. 2. Fair - ie: just because I play daemons and you play grey knights, that doesn't mean your a powergamer and I'm automatically fluffy the bunny. If someone's bringing a brutal list from an "underpowered" codex and someone's bringing a friendly grey knight list the grey knight player might be the one with better comp. 3. make sense - you shouldn't be looking at your comp score and saying WTF? you might not realize *flavour of the day* spam is seen as mean... but you sure know it's powerful So if you bring a power build all min-maxed, it makes sense that your comp score is lower than someone who doesn't. If you bring a friendly list you should score higher. I think Astro's system tried to limit the amount of "power" units you could bring (elites, heavies) but where it falls apart is when the FOC can be easily modified and changed around. They realized that there was no way to be completely fair and try to handle individually scoring 60 army lists (who's got the time?) so they dropped it. 4. Not done by one person. Three sets of eyes are WAY better than one... if we do "relative comp" for example, it won't just be me sorting the lists... that's neither impartial, nor fair.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 6, 2011 18:42:13 GMT -5
wow... ninja'd twice... guess I better post (or think) faster yeah I was just looking at comp in this thread... given that's a highly debated topic.... I think together we can make a system we all can live with....
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Post by calitom on Dec 6, 2011 18:57:48 GMT -5
I think I need the tin-foil hats, you're reading my mind on those 4 points. Love em all.
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Post by nekekami on Dec 6, 2011 19:04:04 GMT -5
Exactly, Shannon. It's how it should be, I was just trying to explain what the whole deal was about.
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Post by danydaigle24 on Dec 6, 2011 19:35:19 GMT -5
Ok guys Im all lost... what are we doing? how we gonna score list or not?
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 6, 2011 20:15:59 GMT -5
yes?
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Post by trevor on Dec 6, 2011 20:17:10 GMT -5
ya i can "only" speak english and i dont understand iether hmm ninja'd ;D
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 6, 2011 20:56:26 GMT -5
Well I think we've figured out that there should be some form of comp scoring... what we haven't figured out yet is what exactly we should do....
I was thinking that myself and a couple "volunteers" would go through the lists and organize them in piles of "rough" to "friendly" then go from there... that's a start anyways... lol...
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Post by LizardTau on Dec 6, 2011 21:14:07 GMT -5
a start is always good, there are some pretty knowledgeable people in the kingston area im sure can help ya, unlike me who never knows what any of the enemy stuff does lol
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Post by danydaigle24 on Dec 7, 2011 7:31:21 GMT -5
Ok but what I dont understand is are we using Justin idea to score or we are not sure yet. And Im assuming youre gonna choose the volunteers Shannon
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2011 7:41:54 GMT -5
Astro's scoring is a whole other topic... but I kind of like their system... others may not... we'll put something together and then post it WAY ahead of time so everyone will know exactly what to expect.
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Post by nekekami on Dec 7, 2011 10:41:08 GMT -5
The reason why I used Asto's scoring system as an example, is because it's been so successful, but note, it's only an example of something more in-depth than; "You won twice and lost once."
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Post by danydaigle24 on Dec 7, 2011 10:54:45 GMT -5
Yeah for sure but what I dont like its 60pts on sportsmanship its easy to have your revenge in there...
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