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Post by connor on Dec 7, 2011 15:34:42 GMT -5
where would you find people willing to judge tournament lists that aren't going to play in the tournament?
on a side note spam is not bad when thats the only way your stuff will be effective, the astro scoring system give grey knights a good comp score but a gretchin hoard a bad one
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2011 15:50:52 GMT -5
yes, I think that's why Astro actually abandoned the comp system they had.... it just didn't work anymore... I certainly wouldn't feel very good about implementing that system here...
problem is... how do you figure out a fair, unbiased, comprehensive comp system that makes sense?
If we think comp should exist, well how do we do it right?
(I really don't know... NOT a rhetorical question!)
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Post by calitom on Dec 7, 2011 16:23:56 GMT -5
I dunno, I mean- it always seems like comp is the more difficult thing to decide upon that's fair to everyone. There are always going to be lists that are going to max out comp even though they are a nice competitive list- and there's really nothing we can do about it. The hard part is to make one that doesn't penalize xenos for having cheaper choices then Space Marines.
Maybe one dealing more with the selections of units you made, not what FOC slot they take up.
I think Swedan has a comp system that gives you negative points based on the competitiveness of something or how much it truly does for your army as a single selection.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2011 16:27:53 GMT -5
I just have a hard time coming up with anything that just isn't completely subjective.... for example just because my daemons would find double raider tough, it doesn't mean a DE lance list would... so much depends on matchups!
I know people think it should be present... but I for one have little idea what would be a fair system....
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Post by connor on Dec 7, 2011 16:38:44 GMT -5
I think maybe we could have every list posted on the forum, everyone could vote on how hard the list is, especially people who can't be there. Then all we need to do is take the average score for each list so that oddball scores, like your own, would be dismissed.
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Post by LizardTau on Dec 7, 2011 16:58:59 GMT -5
the only thing with that is not everyone is one the forum
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Post by connor on Dec 7, 2011 17:36:05 GMT -5
how do they ind out about the tournament? however they find out is a way to collect their army list.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2011 17:48:45 GMT -5
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Canex
Warrior
Hwaiting!
Posts: 224
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Post by Canex on Dec 7, 2011 17:58:05 GMT -5
1 HQ = 0 points 2 HQ = 5 points
Troops = 0 pts
1 Fast = 0 pts 2 Fast = 1 pts 3 Fast = 2 pts
1 Elite = 0 pts 2 Elite = 2 pts 3 Elite = 4 pts
1 Heavy = 0 pts 2 Heavy = 3 pts 3 Heavy = 6 pts
It's an extremely simple system. An army that scores lowest points is considered the least optimized/powerful. An army that scores highest is considered the most optimized/powerful. In reality, there is so much variety amongst the various codices that this is not always going to be the case but imho, there is power and elegance in simplicity, especially as there would be few misunderstandings amongst the player base, and it would be easy to address anomalies by those adjudicating the tournament.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2011 17:59:38 GMT -5
Draigo wing = max comp
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2011 18:05:52 GMT -5
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Post by LizardTau on Dec 7, 2011 18:59:44 GMT -5
the daboyz gt comp list thing the list im working on would be 30 points so i would just be able to make it, opps never mind i forgot to add heavys so i would have 10, wow that would be a hard comp to do
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Post by danydaigle24 on Dec 7, 2011 19:27:37 GMT -5
That guy against comp is right I like him... Lets just forget comp and bring the list you want and if you want to bring purifier spam bring it its only 1 game out of 6 against that list and everybody will hate you ad like he said its all about tactic anyways...
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2011 19:42:46 GMT -5
hmmm
thoughts on Astro's system and Jon's proposal combined with a few tweaks Tommy and I were talking about:
You start with 20 comp
Your first HQ, Fast attack, Elite, heavy and four troops are no comp penalty.
Your second FA, Elite, Heavy and fifth troop are -1 comp
Your third FA, Elite, heavy and sixth troop are -2 comp
If you run a special character that unlocks different options as troops, for the purposes of comp scoring they count as their original unit type (ie: even troop termies count as elites for comp) In this case choices beyond three are -2 for each beyond three as well (ie: 6 termie units would be -9 comp)
Starting with your fourth dedicated transport (ie: first three are free) they are -1 comp each... (ie: 6 razorbacks = -3 comp). This is in addition to any other negatives.
A special character counts as it's FOC (ie: HQ) however further imposes a -1 comp penalty.
vehicles with a cumulative armor rating of 35 or better (when you add Front + Side + Rear armor) cost a further -1 comp in addition to any other penalties above - the first one is free however not imposing this extra penalty.
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that's what I'm proposing as a basis... thoughts?
(I ran my smurf 1850 list through this and got 13... Tom's super spammy (his own words) DE score 7... my daemon tourney list 10...) Try your own list and see if it's fair!
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Post by LizardTau on Dec 7, 2011 19:48:09 GMT -5
one question, what about coteaz, who lets you take warbands as troops who normally don't take up a FOC spot?
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