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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 6, 2012 10:30:39 GMT -5
ummm yes... you're playing nids... everything that isn't synapse, your warlord, or scoring is effectively expendable given the right circumstances... throwing your trygons away to chase rhinos isn't a good thing of course... but if you have to lose both trygons and your hive guard and your ymgarls to take out ALL your opponents' scoring units... you win... likewise if you have to have every gaunt you own and spawn die to bubble wrap a scoring tervigon on an objective, who cares? tyranids need their synapse to remain in control and fearless... two of the most valuable things they have going for them, next to numbers... keep that up and you should be fine... know when to sacrifice something for the greater good... I mean evil... or I guess lunch? even in the fluff tyranids consume their own troops once the world has been consumed... the hive mind only cares that the objective is obtained... even if you've only got ONE gaunt left at the end of the game... the minute you have any unit/model you cannot afford to lose, you've given your opponent a HUGE advantage... as they know exactly what to take out to completely break your army... I for example go into every fight expecting to lose the following models from my list every time: doom (obviously doesn't live past 1-2 turns), flyrant (way too vulnerable), trygon (only got one and no one wants it hitting combat), hive guard (vs. mech they kill these first) and normally one of the tervigons So I never expect to have more than 30% of my army left at the end of any battle... regardless if I won or lost...
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Post by harryf on Dec 6, 2012 10:33:50 GMT -5
talking about gaunt bubble wrap... do gaunts give cover to a talking hive tyrant? not that it matters as I have a 2+
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 6, 2012 10:40:45 GMT -5
yes... he is a 4" creature, therefore only needs 1" to claim cover by the new cover rules
so gaunts can shield.
your trygons... yeah no way that's happening....
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Post by harryf on Dec 6, 2012 10:48:34 GMT -5
what really sucks is that you cant assault from deep strike, so my trygons cant just pop up and charge tanks.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 6, 2012 11:30:45 GMT -5
If trygons could do that, every single person would play Tyranids, because that would be ludicrously overpowered.
Don't complain about what you can't do, there's plenty of reasons the rules are the way they are! How would you feel if I could slam 3 blood talon dreadnoughts into you first turn? (AKA Kill like half your army)
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 6, 2012 13:50:27 GMT -5
you had a unit that could assault when revealed... one of the only ones in the whole game...
...you dropped it for a shooter in a pod
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 6, 2012 14:16:54 GMT -5
you had a unit that could assault when revealed... one of the only ones in the whole game... ...you dropped it for a shooter in a pod This is true, ymgarls are one of the units in the entirety of 40k that can assault from reserves. The only other I can think of off the top of my head is Vanguard Veterans (since lesser daemons from the CSM dex no longer exist).
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Post by fritzthedwarf on Dec 6, 2012 15:16:45 GMT -5
Harry - what they said^.
Trygons assaulting when they arrive from the tunnel would be way to powerful as Ray! Who wouldn't always take 3 trygons! I hope a future dex fixes the tunnel rule so that it has a use and that lictors/deathleaper could assault after appearing but it has to be balanced. Any surprise assault can be devastating to the opponent where you can usually attack a 'choice' target and the opponent can not do anything (okay overwatch but that usually will do little).
Yes the rules have some odd things or unbalanced things, but ymgarls are a strong unit because they CAN assault the turn they arrive when hardly anything else in the game can. Yes they are stealers-types and will die, as will so much of your army in many games. I know that can be disturbing some times when you pull off so many units as casualties but you have to try to remain focused on the mission. As others have said most of the nid army is expendable (and usually dies) if it helps you accomplish the mission.
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Post by harryf on Dec 6, 2012 15:42:26 GMT -5
I see, I see... I was always too protective about EVERY units, should probably change that
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 6, 2012 16:17:38 GMT -5
One thing that makes 40k hard to learn is that you WILL lose units, even if you are completely dominating your opponent. The way Tyranids work multiplies this by an even larger factor. The Hive Mind cares not for it's creatures, only that it's objective (lunch) be obtained. Those that die will simply be re-absorbed and respawned later!
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Post by danydaigle24 on Dec 6, 2012 16:49:34 GMT -5
anyways regarding of Nids Chaos Space Marine Eldar etc. keep in mind its a strategic game. Like Ray said you will lose units but at the end the goal is to achieve the mission and I think thats what make a big difference between a great player and an average player. Great player will keep in mind mission and what they need to do to win by having multiple plan to achive it, average player will think about moving fwd and killing what seem to be dangerous.
Most players think because they bring a strong list they will win automatically. List help but at the end its experience and your strategy that make a huge difference combine with dice aswell.
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Post by harryf on Dec 6, 2012 17:01:23 GMT -5
yeah.... I was always caught up on killing the biggest thing the opponent has, ad forgetting the objectives
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Post by harryf on Dec 10, 2012 10:19:40 GMT -5
at the december tourney, I learned several things: 1. MCs are HUGE fire magnets, in almost all of my matches, some sort of MC got taken out on the first turn, however, they protected my troops, letting them to score and get into CC 2. Ymgarls are supposed to kill ONE thing, no more, no less. because anyone watching a Ymgarl brood cutting down a sniper squad/CCS/leman russ wont let them do it again. 3. I need to be watchful of my troops, in the first match, attacking the assault marines with my hormagants was a TERRIBLE move, because they were one inch away from grabbing the middle objective 4. objective>killing stuff, in my last match against grey knights, I dug in and held, managing to tie the game. if I charged out, I would have surely lost. 5. use the tyranid's quantity to its advantage against blob armies. in my match against eldar/dark eldar, I managed to swing around with a small squad of termagants in order to claim an objective that was forgotten
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 10, 2012 11:07:05 GMT -5
the secret of ymgarls is to NOT charge something weak (CCS etc.) that you will kill in one turn unless you have no other options... you want to kill your target on your opponent's turn... that way you're safe from shooting and able to charge something else on your turn. If you are using your ymgarls as a suicide squad you're doing it wrong. You're actually further ahead if you're using them this way to be as small a squad as possible to prevent wiping out some chaff unit and getting shot to pieces afterwards...
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 10, 2012 12:49:33 GMT -5
Yeah, getting stuck in with most combat units is far better than chewing through whatever you charged. One of the best things with Ymgarls is you can choose to take the +1 T and it lowers your math for killing stuff, and makes you far more durable to the return attacks, even with only 5+ armour. If your opponent needs 5+ or even 6s to wound you it really reduces the number of wounds.
As far as objective play. Yes, most of the time it's not how much stuff you or your opponent killed, it your ability to stand on certain spots on the table with your scoring units.
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