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Post by question on Apr 24, 2017 8:23:49 GMT -5
Every time the net lights up with 40K whinefests I wind up on the floor laughing. Nothing changes and as LizardTau pointed out "they have to bitch about something". If you aren't up for planned (expensive) obsolescence, don't play this game. I'm sure even the cost of a General's Handbook will receive lots of bitching as "cheap" is relative and they won't see the similarity to replacing your codices every few years. Ahh well, nothing really changes.
Personally, I'm looking forward to this just because there should be enough twists to make it entertaining.
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Post by LizardTau on Apr 24, 2017 9:35:02 GMT -5
Wargamming. It never changes. (# que fallout theme)
Sent from my SM-G903W using proboards
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Apr 24, 2017 10:25:46 GMT -5
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Apr 24, 2017 11:25:20 GMT -5
It's on now
-No more AV for vehicles
-Damage tables like AOS for large models
-"bespoke rules" for each model
-Everybody can hurt everyone in the game, it just becomes harder
-Charging models strike first as a general rule
-Still a D6 system
-Games are supposed to be shorter. "1500 pts in ~90 min"
-Campaign support
-All current models/scenery will receive rules day one. Just re-confirmed that
-Command Points: Not just one Force Org chart. 14 in total. These will be coming to the community site this week. By fulfilling the slots in the chart, you get command points. These gives you bonuses. Sound like choosable warlord traits for following the new force orgs.
-Armies will get their own command traits.
-Codexs not disappearing. More like army books from AOS though.
-NO MORE TEMPLATES
-The edition has been beta tested by members of the community. Reese and Frankie from FLG, and a ton of ppl from adepticon, Nova, other tournaments and groups. Most thoroughly play tested edition by "a mile" Feedback was "comprehensive"
-Everyone gets new rules DAY 1. coming in 5 books. coming in a xenos book/imperium book/ and so on. "Cheaper than codexes now"
-"This will be the most balanced version of Warhammer 40k we've ever launched"
-More frequent updates A-La General's Handbook. "We're planning to do the exact same thing. A similar book that comes out annually, with community feedback taken into account"
-Core rules free
-Working on a Warhammer 40k App, but it won't be available at launch
-Guidelines for Tournament organizers.
-Want the main antagonist to be chaos. Will start reflecting this with the rules apparently.
-Q: when is the new edition being released" A: "Prepare to hate my answer. This year. There will be more info on a specific date in the coming weeks.
-Two different point sets. One called power level, focused on narrative play. Less granular, faster list building.
Match play will still have the full level of granularity that we've come to expect. Not quite as simple as AOS.
-New Factions on the way "And I think for launch!"
-Stats are no longer capped at 10. No stat is capped at 10.
-Big weapons WILL cause multiple wounds. Battle cannons are now good against MCs
-Keyword driven system. Things will not transfer as easily. Will tone down the passing of abilities between allies.
-The keywords will also hopefully tone down deathstars.
-Benefits to sticking to one faction. The bigger your detachment, the more command points.
-every day from now on, there will be an article, or video, or interview on the community site that sheds more light on the new edition
-If you have purchased ANY RULE BOOK OR CODEX WITHIN THE LAST 8 WEEKS, you can get a voucher for the full value of the book! Must have proof of purchase.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 24, 2017 11:59:51 GMT -5
well I'm sold!
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Post by voodoo on Apr 24, 2017 12:45:28 GMT -5
What are these “keywords” is that something from AoS? Also, no templates! Crazy talk, just crazy!
That said, diminishing statlines on MC’s, charging striking first, etc. is a BIG bonus. Expect to see every marine sgt have a power fist again. Terminators might (maybe, hopefully) be useful again.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Apr 24, 2017 12:52:37 GMT -5
What are these “keywords” is that something from AoS? Also, no templates! Crazy talk, just crazy! That said, diminishing statlines on MC’s, charging striking first, etc. is a BIG bonus. Expect to see every marine sgt have a power fist again. Terminators might (maybe, hopefully) be useful again. Keywords are an AoS thinger. If you look up any battlescroll, it will have a list of keywords on the bottom relating to its faction, sub faction, and even sometimes battlefield roles. The way I can see it working is something like a Dark Angels tactical marine having the keywords Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Dark Angels, Tactical Marine. A normal space marine character may have an ability that says "All units with the Tactical Marine keyword within 12" of the Space Marine Captain may re-roll shooting hits of 1 with their bolters". A dark angels special character might say something like "All units with the Dark Angels keyword within 12" of Jimmy, The Best Dark Angel may re-roll their plasma weapon's Gets Hot result." I see this as a huge bonus. Easily clears up rules interactions, and limits how many buffs armies can get from different sources. |
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Apr 24, 2017 12:55:16 GMT -5
What are these “keywords” is that something from AoS? Also, no templates! Crazy talk, just crazy! That said, diminishing statlines on MC’s, charging striking first, etc. is a BIG bonus. Expect to see every marine sgt have a power fist again. Terminators might (maybe, hopefully) be useful again. I have a lot of terminators. This would make me happy. |
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Post by voodoo on Apr 24, 2017 12:57:50 GMT -5
Well, that certainly looks like it’d very neatly clear up who gets what etc. woo! Tentative excitement! The only thing I’m actually miffed about is the Imperial Armor books. Those things were GD expensive. Flip side being thankfully I hopefully won’t ever have to pay for their rules anymore.
No AV on tanks… That’s a big change, like huuuuuuuuuuuge. Not only do they need a complete re-balance but every spell that interacts with them will need re-doing. Should at the very least be an interesting time coming while we all learn the new edition.
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Post by voodoo on Apr 24, 2017 12:58:41 GMT -5
What are these “keywords” is that something from AoS? Also, no templates! Crazy talk, just crazy! That said, diminishing statlines on MC’s, charging striking first, etc. is a BIG bonus. Expect to see every marine sgt have a power fist again. Terminators might (maybe, hopefully) be useful again. I have a lot of terminators. This would make me happy. I hear you, I've got 46 unpainted Nurgle Terminators that I've just never gotten the motivation to paint because... terminators... |
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Post by thesanityassassin on Apr 24, 2017 13:37:06 GMT -5
Loving the idea of getting bonuses for filling a Force Org chart. Take a diverse army and get rewarded! Death to Spam!
Also, to re-post my thoughts on vehicles losing armour values for like the 8th time:
To yoink a pretty made up example from the "hopefully 8th looks like this" rule I'd been toying with, the Land Raider has a save of 0+ (1's always fail, but some room for modifiers) and 30 wounds. Lasgun needs to hit on 4 and damage on a 6, or possibly a 6 followed by something. Raider saves on a 2+, maybe followed by something because there was no modifier. So yes, the Lasguns can hurt it, but it's just insanely inefficient to the point of being largely pointless, but maintains the mechanics.
Lascannon on the other hand will damage it on a 4+, with like a -6 to the save, so the Raider only has a 6+ left, and if it fails that it takes 6+D6 wounds.
Yeah, it's not ideal that the Lasgun can hurt it at all, but the mechanic can pretty easily be made almost entirely futile without forcing them to include an entirely different damage system.
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Post by godsproxy on Apr 24, 2017 13:37:10 GMT -5
All of this looks very promising. Mike will be happy to milk my wallet again.
Out of everything I am excited to have a proper app.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Apr 24, 2017 13:48:22 GMT -5
Loving the idea of getting bonuses for filling a Force Org chart. Take a diverse army and get rewarded! Death to Spam! Also, to re-post my thoughts on vehicles losing armour values for like the 8th time: To yoink a pretty made up example from the "hopefully 8th looks like this" rule I'd been toying with, the Land Raider has a save of 0+ (1's always fail, but some room for modifiers) and 30 wounds. Lasgun needs to hit on 4 and damage on a 6, or possibly a 6 followed by something. Raider saves on a 2+, maybe followed by something because there was no modifier. So yes, the Lasguns can hurt it, but it's just insanely inefficient to the point of being largely pointless, but maintains the mechanics. Lascannon on the other hand will damage it on a 4+, with like a -6 to the save, so the Raider only has a 6+ left, and if it fails that it takes 6+D6 wounds. Yeah, it's not ideal that the Lasgun can hurt it at all, but the mechanic can pretty easily be made almost entirely futile without forcing them to include an entirely different damage system. Yah, something to that effect, though I do hope the wounds aren't quite that high. Keeping track of 14-18 wound monsters in AOS sounds like its a bit of a handful. Imagine a battle company worth of rhinos with 12 wounds each! I am getting more and more confident that this edition will be pretty awesome. Just the fact that they've had members of the community involved in play testing is huge. They said in the video that absolutely every unit has seen multiple games in a verity of formats, with more popular units/ known broken units getting even more time to try and not over-nerf or over-buff things. |
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Post by voodoo on Apr 24, 2017 14:01:27 GMT -5
Please let my zombies not be worthless now, so many zombies...
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 24, 2017 14:16:56 GMT -5
Well speaking from the AOS perspective, the way they handle monsters (so MC's for 40k) is one of my favourite rules changes ever in the history of me playing both game systems.
It's just brilliant... so that carnifex is an insane killing machine at the start... and as you rain bullets into it, it gets weaker and weaker while it tries desperately to reach you in time before it falls... visually think of 300 when the big monsters come charging in to die at the last second... epic
yes, it means that the monsters get WEAKER overall and don't retain the same killing power that they do at the start, but it just makes so much sense! Plus with the monsters having more wounds to chug through, even though they get less effective as they go, it does make them SEEM a little more powerful initially.
nothing more frustrating as a tyranid player to have a carnifex HAVE to be a shooting platform hiding in cover... because to actually run out and charge something is suicide... even though by the fluff that is EXACTLY what they should be doing (and something to be scared of rather than just a joke)
Does it take more time? actually no. There's just a chart you look on that shows what stats look like per wound category... once you get used to it, it's just as quick as anything else (plus if you're like me and use magic set editor to make handy little stat cards for everything - it's a super quick reference)
I'm honestly surprised they don't do the combat system of AOS (the person who's turn it is picks a unit to attack, then the opponent, back and forth etc.) Works brilliantly and forces real tactical choice in who attacks first (and how many combats you actually want to have happen that turn). But even just the change to chargers attack first is going to make special weapons actually useful again... and terminators full out terrifying!
.........and as for the keywords at the bottom of the dataslates - it makes everything crystal clear what benefits from what. You don't have the keyword - no bonus for you.... just spitballing an idea here - but this may be the structure by which allies is based on as well.... |
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