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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 5, 2017 11:37:52 GMT -5
so cheaper than currently?  (he's 770 now) yeah I'm not saying unstoppable or anything... just you know... lol... forge world balanced. |
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jun 5, 2017 13:58:39 GMT -5
Laser Destroyers are going to be an interesting choice now. S12 with a chance at 3d6 wounds and guaranteed 2d6 is hateful, but the most common place to see them is also in place of a Quad Lascannon, which is now 4 shots, and as fun as s12 sounds, it's still wounding anything T7 or up (so like, Rhinos), on a 3+, same as those Lascannons, and at a shorter range.
On my Rapiers though...
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Post by voodoo on Jun 5, 2017 14:32:49 GMT -5
Laser Destroyers are going to be an interesting choice now. S12 with a chance at 3d6 wounds and guaranteed 2d6 is hateful, but the most common place to see them is also in place of a Quad Lascannon, which is now 4 shots, and as fun as s12 sounds, it's still wounding anything T7 or up (so like, Rhinos), on a 3+, same as those Lascannons, and at a shorter range. On my Rapiers though... Agreed, there is much hate for the rapier batteries but with a good re-costing to balance them with other options as well as the changes to laser destroyers and the other weapons it mounts will make it to where you see something other than Cyclotrathe Conversion Beamer spam on the rapier batteries. Rapier Weapons in 7th (free) Quad Heavy Bolter – 36” S5 Ap4 – Heavy 6, Twin Linked (15pts) Laser Destroyer – 36” S9 Ap1 – Ordnance 1, Twin Linked (15pts) Ectoplasma Cannon – 24” S8 Ap2 – Heavy 1, Blast (3”), Gets Hot (25pts) Hades Autocannon – 36” S8 Ap4 – Heavy 4, Pinning (35pts) Conversion Beamer – 0-12” S6 Ap- - Heavy 1, Lg. Blast (5 12-24” S8 Ap4 – Heavy 1, Lg. Blast (5”) 24-48” S10 Ap1 – Heavy 1, Lg. Blast (5”) Rapier Weapons in 8th (assuming they stay the same) Quad Heavy Bolter – 36” S5 Ap-1 D1 – Heavy 12 Laser Destroyer – 36” S12 Ap-4 D1-3D6 – Heavy 2 Ectoplasma Cannon – 24” S7 Ap-3 D3 – Heavy D3 Hades Autocannon – 36” S8 Ap-1 D2 – Heavy 4 You can clearly see, that despite the point costs of it, the conversion beamer was THE go to weapon to arm a rapier with. In 8th ed though… depending on what you’re fighting those laser destroyers would work wonders, or the quad heavy bolters when dealing with horde armies. Imagine two units of three of them laying into some Nids, or Orks. You’d have 36 shots per unit of 3 heading down-range to shred apart some tarpit sized units. Even the hades autocannon and ectoplasma have their uses as a more all-comers sort of weapon mount. Makes me happy, removing as many auto-pick weapons/wargear, etc. as possible will make the game more fun. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 5, 2017 16:29:43 GMT -5
rapiers now are pretty much the epitome of forge world lack of balance for the points.
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Post by LizardTau on Jun 5, 2017 16:38:10 GMT -5
rapiers now are pretty much the epitome of forge world lack of balance for the points. You say that now. Watch the supremacy suit be super cheap Sent from my SM-G903W using proboards |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 5, 2017 18:13:24 GMT -5
yeah, we'll see on the whole forgeworld issue for tournies... haven't even seen the base game in action yet, it's way too early to make a decision on forgeworld.
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Post by question on Jun 6, 2017 9:48:07 GMT -5
Agree on the FW issue. Too early, however tasty some of the pieces may be. However, given the tension the "FW / Wallethammer in tournament" issue created previously, it will require some serious thinking. When the time comes we should consider a vote rather than place the pressure on Shannon to make the decision for the community.
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Post by voodoo on Jun 6, 2017 9:58:44 GMT -5
No offense, but it really should be Shannon deciding what is and isn’t allowed once we see rules as any vote will be skewed by ownership.
I’ve got Forgeworld units and will want to use them, that goes without saying; if Shannon believes that “X,Y,Z” units from the chaos book are not balanced enough to play with then, so be it I can’t use them. Everyone should be allowed to make arguments for or against, but maybe consider a temporary hold on all FW units until we can all figure out 8th then start looking at what the FW units will do when mixed into army lists.
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Post by question on Jun 6, 2017 10:12:28 GMT -5
And that is another way to go. By voting self-interests will always be present as well as those who take a broader view when voting. That is the inevitable risk inherent in a vote. I offered it principally as an option to not put the whole load on Shannon. And I agree we should understand the mechanics of 8th before we do so. There should not be a rush on the FW issue.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 6, 2017 10:45:30 GMT -5
meh, I've got big shoulders, I'm okay being the bad guy... lol
there's no rush about forge world... the indexes aren't all even going to be done for release...
when it becomes an issue we'll sort it out... we have SO much to learn with a rewrite of every army, every unit in the base game, I'm not sure why people would feel the need to "I must have my extra forgeworld toys right now!" but it is what it is....
I'll tell you one thing for absolute certainty though. If you don't have the rules with you - in hard copy form, ain't legal for tournies. the indexes are WAY cheap enough and available locally. The main rulebook is available for cheap in the box set and separately in store starting next week.
I've seen a lot of people playing with the leaked downloaded rules/indexes... so I'm being super clear up front. This will NOT fly at tournies here.
"oh but what if I bought the digital version?" I hear someone saying. You didn't. You got it from the same leak link everyone else did.
indexes are CHEAP. There's no reason not to own it for your army if you're coming to a tourney.
this includes forgeworld. No PDF's. You need the rules to play in tournies. (I've been super lenient on forge world up until now, because it's been super expensive and Mike doesn't sell it... but even THEIR indexes are $30... and most of you got your FW models from china anyways... lol... deal)
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jun 6, 2017 12:30:09 GMT -5
And for those who somehow didn't notice, I'm making a FW order for the Indexes very shortly *hint hint*
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jun 6, 2017 12:57:10 GMT -5
Personally, I didn't order IA3 The Taros Campaign because not only was it over 120$, but it was also over 6 years old. Couple that with FW consistently hinting that Fires of Cyraxis is "Just around the corner!" (honestly, they showed it at the FW weekender LAST year) and it just didn't seem like a good investment.
With the ability to get the rules from pretty close to the get go, at a VERY reasonable price, I have no issue buying the FW indexs I need, even if they may be invalidated in a year.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 6, 2017 13:51:25 GMT -5
yes... that is why I didn't have the rule in the past... forgeworld in general was just WAY too overpriced for what you got with their books... and expecting someone to buy a $120 book for one unit (which is what generally happened) seemed more than a little unrealistic.
however $30 for all the imperial, chaos or xenos? yeah I think that's a reasonable expectation for the ability to run forgeworld in tournies.
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Post by voodoo on Jun 6, 2017 14:01:24 GMT -5
If units get updated sheets in the future… so long as you bought the book once will you have to re-up every year or can you print the new sheet and tape it into your already purchased book?
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Post by LizardTau on Jun 6, 2017 14:46:00 GMT -5
Mini wargamming has more 8th edition battle reports.
The yesterday's had dark angels vs tau.
Today's had chaos vs Astra milatarum
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(he's 770 now)
