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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 16, 2023 7:21:08 GMT -5
I am trusting it will. if it won't, well then for clubs I'll be forced to. (likely cap at 6 mortals per unit rather than per unit targetted to stop that splitfire kill three units nonsense out of a 100 point unit!) Are you going to rule thar for every ability that does capped mortals? Because they all work that way. Psalm of Remorseless Persecution, Mandiblasters, etc etc all cap at 6 MW per unit receiving per phase. That's the way all of them work before the Karskins came out, so I am assuming that is the way the unit will eventually be ruled. My thoughts would be GW should be consistent... yeah I know... it's GW... but like you say, they all work that way, so why wouldn't this work the same? I'm guessing that the unit will be nerfed way worse than that eventually, but these things sometimes take a few months before GW pays attention. In that case, this would be what I would propose - just make them work like everything else with the same ability. They would still be REALLY good for the points, just a bit less oppressive. But I am hoping that GW just takes care of this for me so I don't have to houserule anything because that can lead down a slippery slope. Thus far I haven't talked to one person in the community here that is happy with how they are currently worded, and I heard a whole lot of "this is going to be a problem".
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Post by cmcd on Jan 16, 2023 9:51:57 GMT -5
I still dont understand how you get 3 x 6 MW’s with the attack.
9 hotshot lasguns and a las pistol. BS+3
First rank fire second rank fire changes to heavy 3 so your looking at 28 shots 4+ (-1 heavy) Brutal strength removes the minus 1 Divide by 3 units 9, 9, 10 3 to hit 5+ do mortals. 2 cp. 3 mortals , 3 mortals, 3.33 mortals
On average your looking at 9 mortals. Yeah that’s pretty good for 100 points and 2 CP. , but they are T3 with 4+ save. So they wont last long on the table. Even if you put them in a transport and hide them they only get one attack
Am i missing something in this attack sequence to make them better at dealing MWs?
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jan 16, 2023 9:55:37 GMT -5
You're missing full rerolls from lord solar to really make it go. That's where it gets broken. Fish for 5's the first go round, and then full rerolls to wound as well. There may also be an argument for using take aim instead of frfsrf for +1 to hit and -1 ap, meaning that even the non-mortal wounds caused are pretty devestating.
For survivability, take the Barbicants Key and just hide them first turn. Then they teleport into your backline.
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Post by cmcd on Jan 16, 2023 10:04:45 GMT -5
You're missing full rerolls from lord solar to really make it go. That's where it gets broken. Fish for 5's the first go round, and then full rerolls to wound as well. There may also be an argument for using take aim instead of frfsrf for +1 to hit and -1 ap, meaning that even the non-mortal wounds caused are pretty devestating. For survivability, take the Barbicants Key and just hide them first turn. Then they teleport into your backline. Yeah full rerolls, would help, 5, 5, 5.3. Yeah thats better . And reroll to wound. Cause they are core. I knew about the key, but good old leontus skipped my mind.
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Post by harryf on Jan 16, 2023 10:07:36 GMT -5
I still dont understand how you get 3 x 6 MW’s with the attack. 9 hotshot lasguns and a las pistol. BS+3 First rank fire second rank fire changes to heavy 3 so your looking at 28 shots 4+ (-1 heavy) Brutal strength removes the minus 1 Divide by 3 units 9, 9, 10 3 to hit 5+ do mortals. 2 cp. 3 mortals , 3 mortals, 3.33 mortals On average your looking at 9 mortals. Yeah that’s pretty good for 100 points and 2 CP. , but they are T3 with 4+ save. So they wont last long on the table. Even if you put them in a transport and hide them they only get one attack Am i missing something in this attack sequence to make them better at dealing MWs? 10 units, 1 pistol, 2 volley guns, 7 regular guns FRFSRF: 1+2*4+7*3 makes 30 shots total, don't care about -1 BS since its about fishing for MWs, use leontus to full reroll 30 shots, ingrained precision + overcharged cells makes 5+ to hit 6s to wound, which do a mortal 30 shots, 10 mortals off the bat, reroll everything (even the hits) for another 6 mortals, and 4 normal hits. Now you roll for wounds and also full reroll, gets you very close to 18 mortals (I rounded down everything), on top of this there's also 18 regular wounds at AP-2 which is no joke This assumes you buff them up and teleport them in so they're firing the FRFSRF lasguns's Heavy 3 profile after moving. If you're standing still firing then you can get even more since you get more regular hits to fish for 6s to wound with.
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Post by harryf on Jan 16, 2023 10:14:20 GMT -5
In a world where the MWs are capped, two Kasrkins with FRFSRF, one using ingrained precisions and one using overcharged las cells would do about 6 MWs and 30 AP-2 wounds, a substantial downgrade but still powerful.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 16, 2023 11:48:06 GMT -5
In a world where the MWs are capped, two Kasrkins with FRFSRF, one using ingrained precisions and one using overcharged las cells would do about 6 MWs and 30 AP-2 wounds, a substantial downgrade but still powerful. 1 cp makes those -3 ap and maybe -4 if you give them take aim over FRFSRF to get more out of the normal hits.
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Post by sean on Jan 16, 2023 17:52:39 GMT -5
Yeah I think it is up in the air how they will nerf the combo but it is without a doubt going to get nerfed eventually. Swooping hawks strat is “pick a unit to do mortal wounds to”. Sisters strat is 6 mortals per phase. Wrath of mars is worded like the guard one, but 2 Cp for a big unit, and doesn’t have the combo to have it be on 5’s to hit instead of 6’s to wound. Salamanders is limited to 3 mortal wounds.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jan 16, 2023 18:04:02 GMT -5
With the guard range up for preorder now, we should hopefully have a FAQ before clubs.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 16, 2023 18:15:39 GMT -5
With the guard range up for preorder now, we should hopefully have a FAQ before clubs. if we don't I'm getting YOU to write our local FAQ because you know the nonsense and how best to solve it
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