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Post by cmcd on Sept 4, 2023 16:22:44 GMT -5
Got an email from GW. Balance Dataslate scheduled for thursday.
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Post by voodoo on Sept 4, 2023 18:14:44 GMT -5
Should be interesting to see how that'll impact the top performers right now. Mainly in terms of knights... will Loyalist pay a premium for their better faction bonus? Will Eldar get another hot slapping with point hikes, not to mention some GSC units.
On the flip side, will intercessors take a large tumble, because 19 ppm is just insane.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 4, 2023 18:41:21 GMT -5
well I'm firmly expecting my GSC to get a swift kick... that's pretty much guaranteed... but they could easily change the recycling of troops to be on a 3+ instead and it'd probably tone them down considerably.
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Post by raceygaming on Sept 4, 2023 20:10:41 GMT -5
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Post by mrmanstory on Sept 4, 2023 20:24:51 GMT -5
I will commence oiling my toaster in hopes for kastellan robot buffs. I already have been having some success with them so if they can get a small points drop my heart may explode!
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 5, 2023 16:19:15 GMT -5
Well here's hoping there aren't too many changes. I don't want to have to rethink my entire team tournament list at what is almost the last minute.
Though if they do change the Votann (instead of waiting of the codex) I really hope they aren't lazy and just give a point drop. Dwarves are not supposed to be a horde faction! Instead give them the base 3+ to hit back and allow more than one Kahl to law down a judgement token per turn.
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Post by question on Sept 5, 2023 16:57:14 GMT -5
Hopes and dreams people, hopes and dreams.
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Post by distractedcarnifex on Sept 5, 2023 21:16:15 GMT -5
The Aeldari Index has to be nuked from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 6, 2023 7:21:19 GMT -5
I predict GW surprises us all yet again. Every time the Internet thinks "the solution to this balance problem is clearly ______", we get a totally different angle from GW.
I predict:
Rules changes to mortal wounds, towering, indirect fire, free-use stratagems, overwatch.
Minor/Major points nerfs to key aeldari, GSC, custodes, and knight datasheets that aren't caught/covered by the rules changes above.
Significant points cuts for sub 40% WR factions, in the range of 5% overall, but 15-20% for certain units.
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Post by voodoo on Sept 6, 2023 8:26:06 GMT -5
Towering units shooting into ruins isn't a problem until you can also make them all mortals for "free"... Ray, I appreciate that you love Aeldari, but GW made mistakes that need to be rectified. When 5 of the top 10 at Nova were Aeldari; that should tell you exactly how broken the book really is, and how much it needs to be reigned in.
I respect you as a person, but I have to heartily disagree with your sentiment about the Aeldari index. If all towering shooting units were a problem, then we'd see Chaos Knights doing better in the standings than they are. Imperial Knights are a stronger index, despite CHaos Knights arguably having the "stronger" and more swiss-army units.
I can't help but feel like Aeldari are going to get another significant hike almost army-wide, but agree with you that they'll tweak points for over/under-performing units in other armies.
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Post by distractedcarnifex on Sept 6, 2023 9:00:00 GMT -5
In all seriousness, GW needs to “right the ship” regarding Aeldari before 10th Ed sinks. GSC also needs a look, (less so than Aeldari) but that might be a simpler matter (cost them for their expected Reinforcement).
The Wraithknight either needs to lose Devastating Wounds on its cannon, or only have them Devastating against Vehicles and Monsters. Making Fate Dice count as Modified could also help, and could make some other Aeldari weapons less oppressive.
Ynncairne also needs fixed, as does Phantasm. Make Phantasm the same as the Space Marine one.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 6, 2023 9:27:56 GMT -5
GSC is a super easy fix... tweak the rules a bit on the coming back, and you've essentially got deep striking guardsmen with terrible shooting and decent melee (mining lasers are the only real anti-tank and hitting on 4's sucks lol). The big problem with them (as a GSC player I WANT this to change!) is the acolytes / neophyte respawn bonus. if it was all on a 4+ (or 3+ for troops) their win rate would drop significantly.
Aeldari is another problem, which is not so easily solved. I don't think point hikes are totally it. You add 50 points onto a wraithknight and it's still on the table, and still is nuking things with automatic piles of mortal wounds, they just give up something else not so tuned. Fate dice are one of the biggest problems with the codex. The simplest adjustment I can think of is that if you use it to proc a wound to a six - it does not trigger devastating wounds. That would rein in a bit for sure. But I'm not confident that alone would do it. They need some pretty significant changes, otherwise the "competitive meta" will just stagnate as people will lose interest in the "all eldar all the time"... and RTT's will just put in their own houserules, which makes every community different and results in all kinds of weird unforseen issues.
GW needs to get a handle on this immediately. I'm glad the balance dataslate is this week and well in time for our next tourneys. They've already said that they're dealing with Aeldari and GSC at the top end, and then the numerous armies which are in the bottom of the pile as well. (which is great!)
I'm cautiously optimistic?
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 6, 2023 9:57:11 GMT -5
The problems with aeldari are limited to about 6-8 massively overperforming datasheets.
I expect these to be something like:
Wraithknight Fire Prism Shadow Spectres Warp Spiders Support Batteries Avatar Yncarne
I absolutely agree aeldari are too strong. The issues are not going to be purely nerfs to aeldari to reign them in. The core rules themselves are actually the issue, it's just the fact that aeldari get access to so many of these broken core mechanics in combination that created the powerhouse lists dominating the meta.
If GW just points nerfed aeldari into oblivion (pretend the date slate just gives every unit in the aeldari index a 20% points hike), you're going to watch the next indirect-mortal-wound-bomb simply emerge from the shadows. They have to fix the core rules that allow these non-interactive armies to exist otherwise they'll be playing whack a mole for the next several months.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 6, 2023 11:19:28 GMT -5
I'll counter that Aeldari are the only ones really taking advantage of any of this due to the rules interaction with their units. I mean consistent results for months don't lie. No other army gets to change a wound roll to a 6 and make it devastating... only Eldar can do that. Regular devastating wounds are pretty minimal normally (like 1-3 mortals for most things) but on a D cannon (remember when they thought three in a unit was a good idea? lol) or a wraithknight it's just bonkers. Points alone aren't going to fix it. And the core rules aren't causing a problem for other armies anywhere even close to what is happening with Eldar... so I have to respectfully disagree with that. Check out the latest round of results on Goonhammer for all the tournies that just happened on the weekend (including Nova and the goonhammer GT)... towering and indirect weren't an issue or it'd be all knights, guard and desolation marines... spoiler alert - it was not. www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-10th-ready-to-fall/We only have ONE tourney in the books for 10th, and Eldar were the only army anyone complained about that tournament. the problem with most of these "competitive" players (I don't find ANYTHING competitive about playing the most broken combos you can find then move on to something new after the inevitable nerf) is they wreck things for the rest of us, who actually like the armies we own and aren't moving on after the dust settles.
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Post by distractedcarnifex on Sept 6, 2023 11:36:59 GMT -5
Imagine in Age of Sigmar if Blades of Khorne had a Blood Tithe to make a Wound roll an unmodified 6. People would lose their minds.
Aeldari in 40K are that with the volume turned to 11.
Points might fix the Bright Lance problem, but Devastating Wounds and Fate Dice needs to go to the dust bin of history.
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