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Post by raceygaming on Sept 7, 2023 8:33:22 GMT -5
oof... GSC got hammered hard! returning on a 5+ instead of a 4+ and instead of automatically on troops on a 4+, plus a massive point hike? (my list which was pretty normal went up 180 points) unfortunately for me, I'm locked in as GSC for the league that just started lol, cuz they'd be sitting back on the shelf again for sure. battleline are a 3+ on turns 1 and 2, with other stuff being 4+ turn 1 and 2 and 4+/5+ on turns 3-5 (+1 for battleline +1 for turn 1/2) |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 7, 2023 8:34:11 GMT -5
My regular tyranid list went up 225 points! Guess a 50% win rate doesn't make you immune to nerfs lol
T-fexes lost their -1 damage in the dex and went UP 45 points!
The assimilator/emmissary haven't even been released yet and went up in points!
sweeping point increases across the board... wow...
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 7, 2023 8:39:33 GMT -5
oof... GSC got hammered hard! returning on a 5+ instead of a 4+ and instead of automatically on troops on a 4+, plus a massive point hike? (my list which was pretty normal went up 180 points) unfortunately for me, I'm locked in as GSC for the league that just started lol, cuz they'd be sitting back on the shelf again for sure. battleline are a 3+ on turns 1 and 2, with other stuff being 4+ turn 1 and 2 and 4+/5+ on turns 3-5 (+1 for battleline +1 for turn 1/2) Yeah but given how GSC play it's a turn 2 buff realistically. In all games I've played you score your points turn 3-5 when the recycling can happen. Not happening now. Which is fine. I'm used to GSC being hard to play. I'm cool going back to them being my casual army. |
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Post by raceygaming on Sept 7, 2023 8:45:37 GMT -5
Overall happy with changes. My orks went up 2000 to 2035 so pretty much nothing. most of the points coming from +10 ppm on trukks which is fair. Will have to drop a unit of grots to get back to 1995.
Custodes did well my list was 2000 and is now 2140, but ALSO have some illegal sized units. Wardens going to 4-5 not 3-5 and guard losing 9s and 10s was not expected at all. Otherwise just +5ppm on custode infantry and -10 on bikes ( probably not enough) and a could other units got a nice point drop on sisters and FW infantry to bring it more in line with index stuff.
My tau list is down 2000 pts to 1780 so 220pts which feels pretty great. Will actually have to reexamine tau. my only complaint is they still have not made an offical clarification on the FtGG - tournaments are at the whim of the T.O if its half your army or chainable. thats the only big miss I can see for Tau.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 7, 2023 8:54:35 GMT -5
Votann got some welcome point drops. My test list (that was pretty bad lol) gained like 300 points... so I guess they're a horde army now? lol
World eaters dropped some points significantly too, which is nice, can get another unit in there
Necrons seemed pretty much gains and losses, looks like the shooty stuff went up... but that transcendent... oh man... you're paying for your sins now!
Daemons got some cuts on terrible stuff (ahem nurgle) and some increases on the good stuff, which was pretty much expected. I still don't think their troops are going to make the cut yet. Just too fragile and pillow fisted for the points. So daemon lists I think will stay basically the same.
I'm glad the sisters got the drops they needed. Things are looking alot fairer for them now.
Well they dropped the karnivore a bit, but then cranked up the points of all the other wardogs... so you'll see karnivores instead of stalkers now I guess? They even called out the Imperial Knights were outpacing the chaos knights, so this seems kind of weird to me, but okay.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 7, 2023 10:56:48 GMT -5
Honestly, this was what I was hoping for. The hardcore competitive aeldari lists got hit HARD and, the some of the most optimized list version are up 300+ points. Totally destroyed.
Meanwhile, more than 75% of the datasheets in the index are unchanged. GW nailed this. My list that purposely avoided the most-OP units was nickel-and-dimed and I had to drop an enhancement and a single utility unit, but otherwise is still functional. (was 1995 and went to 2100)
Quite happy with the core rules changes, everything on my wishlist was done.
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Post by dapperswain on Sept 7, 2023 11:01:58 GMT -5
My ridiculous Dreadnought list had points go up on Desolators and points down on just about everything else. I can fit some more resources in there, but not sure yet where to go. Desolation Squad is capped at five units now on top of points increase, so the easy dip of adding a Bolter Discipline leader to that unit is questionable. Changes to a space marine list are probably best left for after the codex release.
My AdMech list for Secret Santa shenanigans now can fit two ironstriders once I drop an enhancement. That list is running Omnipulus and as many Breacher proxies as I can fit. I'm hoping the AdMech codex is released before Secret Santa so I can change detachments - Omnipulus goes away, but the detachment may actually be useful.
My Thousand Sons list is a lot... cleaner after dropping the second ten man unit of Scarab Occult Terminators. I like my shooting bricks, but I can get a lot of alternate value in there for 430 points.
I still prefer rules support for factions that aren't doing well in comparison to blanket point cuts. It's like... "Congrats, you're a horde army now! Quantity is its own quality! The GW web store is open 24/7 to help you get back to 2000 points!"
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Post by voodoo on Sept 7, 2023 11:03:54 GMT -5
The Sons list I brought to the intro tournament is now 2340 points after poink hikes across every unit except for Helbrutes... not sure why Rubrics are now 21ppm and Scarab occult are 43!
I also disagree with every shooty knight staying the same, while the Rampager got a token 15 point decrease... okay... Changes to towering are kinda bull; but at least everyone can't auto-see knights like they could in 9th. No more curving your bullets around a mountain like you have an army of assassins from Wanted.
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Post by Typhus on Sept 7, 2023 11:37:54 GMT -5
I was hoping for any form of durability increase. GW has doubled down on making Death Guard cheaper and crappier than every otber kind of marine. Very cool.
Grey Knights looking pretty real though, with some generous cuts.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 7, 2023 11:47:29 GMT -5
I'm watching the tyranid hive melt down right now... they are NOT happy with these random hikes
Eldar dominate and 25% of their units go up and the rest stay the same
Nids are mid-tier and the majority of their units go up in points. percentage wise, the Tyrannofex got hit twice as hard as the wraithknight... explain that to me? GT players weren't exactly using them, so why do they hit this unit? A unit that was nerfed losing their -1 damage ability in the new codex?
And why point hike everything two days before you want people to buy new models?
EDIT: Goonhammer's take was hilarious when they talked about the tfex "Tyrannofex burnt to the ground and the earth salted where once it stood."
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Post by dapperswain on Sept 7, 2023 11:52:18 GMT -5
The Sons list I brought to the intro tournament is now 2340 points after poink hikes across every unit except for Helbrutes... not sure why Rubrics are now 21ppm and Scarab occult are 43! I'm assuming this is an pre-emptive (and possibly unwarranted) attempt to keep TSons from being oppressive after nerfing the four factions with higher winrates above it? I assumed the dev wounds changes would have kept TSons from getting out of control. |
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Post by dapperswain on Sept 7, 2023 12:04:23 GMT -5
And why point hike everything two days before you want people to buy new models? Cynically? If your list is broken by point updates, you might be more likely to just start a new one? Disrupt enough existing lists that people are more likely to look at new options like the Norn Emissary? |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 7, 2023 12:08:49 GMT -5
The Sons list I brought to the intro tournament is now 2340 points after poink hikes across every unit except for Helbrutes... not sure why Rubrics are now 21ppm and Scarab occult are 43! I'm assuming this is an pre-emptive (and possibly unwarranted) attempt to keep TSons from being oppressive after nerfing the four factions with higher winrates above it? I assumed the dev wounds changes would have kept TSons from getting out of control. TSons had a combo that (by my limited understanding) allowed by using the right units and cabal abilities you could use 2-3 strats every turn for free. Additionally, they had a blob/combo that could literally kill any unit in the game in a single-attack (see www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxBRrvN8OcE)My GUESS is these two things attracted some heat from the balance team. I'll refrain from commenting further as I don't know enough beyond that to know if this was commonly being done or even cost-effective (or if it was broken by the other dataslate changes) |
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Post by voodoo on Sept 7, 2023 12:26:33 GMT -5
It's a combo that uses about 1000 points of your army to accomplish AND 2CP. It's not useable T1, and will require you to just park Magnus next to the terminators.
Yes, it CAN kill almost anything in the game, but using 1000 points of your army and 2 turns worth of CP SHOULD be able to kill any other unit in the game.
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Post by dapperswain on Sept 7, 2023 12:27:37 GMT -5
I'm assuming this is an pre-emptive (and possibly unwarranted) attempt to keep TSons from being oppressive after nerfing the four factions with higher winrates above it? I assumed the dev wounds changes would have kept TSons from getting out of control. TSons had a combo that allows essentially with the right units and cabal abilities you could essentially use like 3 strats every turn for free. Additionally, they had a blob/combo that could literally kill any unit in the game in a single-attack (see www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxBRrvN8OcE)My GUESS is these two things attracted some heat from the balance team. I'll refrain from commenting further as I don't know enough beyond that to know if this was commonly being done or even cost-effective. I mean, TSons were vaguely near the top of the rankings for a reason. Parts of that lethal combo are quite brittle or not universally used (specifically - Magnus). I'm not saying it's not warranted - but the nerfs are happening before the new meta has had a chance to shake out. |
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