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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 6, 2023 11:47:02 GMT -5
We're actually in more of an agreement than you think.
I believe the nerf-hammer is coming down tomorrow. It will be historic. I just don't think that nerfing howling banshees and shining spears that aren't even remotely included in these broken aeldari lists does anything good for the game.
For GW to effectively nerf Aeldari, they need to change some core rules, AND adjust points of the over-performing dataslates to appropriate levels.
For example, Shadow Specters, which are appearing almost as often as the Wraithknight in competitive lists lately, are outrageously under costed. 80 points for 5, and they have a baked-in Move-Shoot-Move that other units with similar abilities are costed at 120 for 5.
As Stu Black has explained before, with ability-chains/combos like the Wraithknight, they usually target taking one link out of the chain and watching the whole chain collapse. So I expect them to go after one of the chain-links. Maybe it'll be Fate Dice, maybe it'll be Devastating Wounds, maybe it will be multiple links! We'll know by this time tomorrow.
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Post by cmcd on Sept 6, 2023 13:38:01 GMT -5
I don't know why your all against the Aeldari.... Man they have had a hard life. They have been at war for millions of years. Fractured by Dark Gods, and have their "souls" transferred into necron bodies... sorry. I mean Wraiths... Give the little / fragile guys a break.
Looking forward to the balance tomorrow. I am happy that the GSC is doing well, They have been not great ever since they became an army in model form.
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Post by raceygaming on Sept 6, 2023 15:19:59 GMT -5
I enjoy a guessing game so I have a couple of ideas:
Eldar I think most people have keyed in on eldar with fate dice being modified rolls to stop "unmodified" triggers like dev wounds. Then I think most of the codex can go +10% cost with the top 8-10 going up +20% (wraith knight, wraith guard, farseer, warp spiders, specters, fire prism, horents, warwalkers, night spinner). Could even potential see the re-roll go to re-roll a hit OR wounds not both if they really want to deal with things.
GSC Haven't played vs them enough, seen enough games to know what the fix is. I think right now its obvious they are not being charged enough points for the respawn I don't know if this will be fixed with a point increase 5-15% depending on the unit OR reduce respawn with a 3+/5+ approch for battleline/non battleline from the current auto/4+ roll. Could go either way. No matter what the do expect the core character to increase.
Necrons I think they are solid but 2 point of contention 1. lychgaurd are in way to many lists with 20 being pretty common place so id expect to see maybe a 2-3 ppm ( 10-15 per 5 man) increase to stop spam. 2. The Transdenced C'tan with the Weave is going to get hit either 20% point increase or make it unique so no relics. Hoping a couple bad units preatorains get some point down.
Imperial knights a few points on warden and maybe crusader. a couple points on warglaves just to things don't fit quite so well, when assassins and stuff are in the mix. Pretty decent where they are now.
Custodes 5 ppm up on custode guard to 50, the re-rolls are stronger then they pay for at 45 ppm. Sheild captians up 10-15 ppm to 135-140 due to free strat ability. Might see fight first get changed to fight on death depending on much they want to change, incourage trading. Would love to see bikes and venitarii go down big 15-20 points they are CRAZY over costed.
T.sons small points change at 5% on most staples to help them stay in line with others post nerf.
Nids minor points changed up for good stuff down for bad stuff and maybe mines can't score or some rule to the affect.
When it comes to Buffs its gets a lot more dicey. There are just so many ways to help some of the weaker factions.
I think you are gonna see Tau, DG, Votaanm admech getting 15% discount to most stuff with exceptions like t'au crisis and commander, Admech breachers. If they go for bigger changes wit rules then I would think:
Tau - FtGG will lose the split fire claus of -1 so you get +1 BS for shootin together but not -1 bs for split firing DG- Extra army rule maybe 6+ FnP or Monster/vehicles are -2 T in aura Votaan - Void armor return for -1 AP or +1 BS rather than +1 to hit on judgement so you can stack back to 2+ to hit. Admech - not sure when they can do with the rad bomb unless it like builds like d3 mortals, then 2 mortals, 3 mortal etc I don't know how you fix something that tehe enemy gets full controller over. just badly designed.
Otherwise I think Sisters, orks, Dark Eldar, marines of most types but not death watch, Chaos knights, Chaos, Demons etc will just see targetted nickle and dime stuff to bad units getting cheaper and spammed units up a little. Big ones of note Sister elite infantry suck and need 10% off, Chaos wardogs are too spammy up a little with big guys coming down, Dark eldar melee needs a buff. Orks shooting units need point cut except flashgits. Marines nees a couple things cheaper but with codex incoming not sure we will see that.
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Post by mrmanstory on Sept 6, 2023 17:30:44 GMT -5
The main thing I’d like to see is the admech units that literally dont get doctrinas currently do end up getting them. Also see a lot of people online saying a good change would be making the cybernetica datasmith not giving the infantry keyword to kastellan robots since it makes them able to be hit by anti infantry and anti vehicle. That or at least let them have the benefit of infantry by going through ruins. Breachers and tech priests are fine points wise. Breachers feel good at 300 points for 6 they would feel too good at any less. As much as I also want to see them just give admech a new detachment since the current one is okay turn 1 and does sometimes nothing past that is frustrating I also know that the admech book is coming decently soon so I can deal with rad bombardment. I also don’t want to set a president of them dropping the detachments in the data slate if someone’s under performing.
Just my little more in depth admech rant while people speak of the boogymen of the meta!
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Post by Typhus on Sept 6, 2023 17:43:22 GMT -5
Datasmiths should just receive Lone Operative while within 3" of Kastellan Robots, rather than joining them.
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Post by mrmanstory on Sept 6, 2023 18:52:59 GMT -5
Datasmiths should just receive Lone Operative while within 3" of Kastellan Robots, rather than joining them. that is a fantastic idea
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Post by trantos01 on Sept 6, 2023 19:42:42 GMT -5
Social media posts by 'Warhammer 40,000' have stated that the dataslate is not going to cover the 'nid codex proper. Though there could be changes to the general rules that might effect the bugs etc and potential point changes for them are mentioned.
Cog boys are supposed to be getting some love (tone seems to be leaning towards rules as opposed to just points) and Grey Knights will have point tweaks.
Meanwhile Votann are supposed to be getting a 'bit of both?' in regards to point changes and modifications to Judgement Tokens.
There are also some rather dodgy discord-based leaks but I'm taking those with a baneblade's weight in salt.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 6, 2023 21:27:46 GMT -5
leaks of the nid dex already have addressed issues in a weirdly GW way lol... so instead of spore mines not scoring, they just limit their generation to one biovore a turn.... so .... ummm.... okay?
The big bugs are weird a bit... the assimilator which has better shooting, a 4+ invul and FNP vs. mortals is more expensive than the one with slightly better combat and no invul or FNP... okay?
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Post by Typhus on Sept 6, 2023 22:38:29 GMT -5
Datasmiths should just receive Lone Operative while within 3" of Kastellan Robots, rather than joining them. that is a fantastic idea Thanks! I stole it from other datasheets in the same Index.GW is not good at writing rules.
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Post by distractedcarnifex on Sept 7, 2023 7:04:53 GMT -5
Looks like whoever made the discord leaks had the Balance Dataslate in their possession.
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Post by Khalai on Sept 7, 2023 7:21:47 GMT -5
I do like the core rules changes overall. Good stuff there. Devastating wounds needed something and I feel like this is a reasonable change.
Though sometimes I wish they would let the core rules changes breathe a but before applying points changes on the units that were by and large solved by the rules changes.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 7, 2023 7:59:22 GMT -5
lol... why did they bother putting points in the nid book if they're invalidated two days before the book drops?
like just keep all the points online!
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 7, 2023 8:02:15 GMT -5
Still figuring out exact details, but this right around what I was expecting.
Most folks in my aeldari community who've updated battle forge are finding their lists went up about 80-120 points if you were making fairly normal lists, while hardcore competitive lists are up closer to 200-250 range.
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Post by mrmanstory on Sept 7, 2023 8:11:20 GMT -5
Admech groups are exploding with salt similar to death guard when index’s were first released. I’m just happy the points cuts were decently significant. Kastellans down 15 points per 2. Dragoons down 15 points each! 180 for a 3 man unit of melee chicken walkers seems great! Also admech troops are pointed way more appropriate for what they are and got a buff to their saves. Breachers went down 5 points per 3 which is great as well!
People mostly seem mad that rad bombardment is still bad comparing it to death guards plague company glow up but at least the admech codex is set for winter this year so no one’s stuck using it much longer.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 7, 2023 8:22:12 GMT -5
oof... GSC got hammered hard!
returning on a 5+ instead of a 4+ and instead of automatically on troops on a 4+, plus a massive point hike? (my list which was pretty normal went up 180 points)
unfortunately for me, I'm locked in as GSC for the league that just started lol, cuz they'd be sitting back on the shelf again for sure.
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