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Post by voodoo on Jan 11, 2021 13:27:45 GMT -5
I thought about this, and while Morty having 3-4 warlord traits is cool for him; it REALLY puts all of your eggs in one basket. Unless there's going to be 9+ traits to pick from they may have just made it so DG players can't bring another special character or an un-named that they wanted to spend CP to add a particularly good trait onto.
If Morty's eating them all, then sorry Death Guard HQ's; you get to watch one model eat up all of your buffs.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 11, 2021 13:53:33 GMT -5
I thought about this, and while Morty having 3-4 warlord traits is cool for him; it REALLY puts all of your eggs in one basket. Unless there's going to be 9+ traits to pick from they may have just made it so DG players can't bring another special character or an un-named that they wanted to spend CP to add a particularly good trait onto. If Morty's eating them all, then sorry Death Guard HQ's; you get to watch one model eat up all of your buffs. I hadn't thought about this way, I forgot about the uniqueness rule on warlord traits. That's really going to be a damper on some of the Demon Prince builds that previously existed. Could explain why they were dropped in points |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 11, 2021 15:20:32 GMT -5
Well Morty is eating three warlord traits. There MAY be still the ability to give another HQ a warlord trait as well, but this isn't known yet as far as I've heard, and that's generally restricted to one other character anyways. Usually with the new codexes there's a pretty good selection of traits, so I don't think you'll be losing anything at all having Morty take three of them (and who knows if these are the BEST traits either right? They might have given him a dud one and a couple good ones)
Morty is priced pretty accurately and seems on par with the Silent King (for the same relative cost). So seems balanced. I know I'm struggling to find a necron list where it isn't automatically improved by the silent king in it. Morty might be the same, or he might just be one of those really strong options you can take.
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Post by voodoo on Jan 11, 2021 15:27:07 GMT -5
I honestly hope that he and Magnus both become "auto-take" units again. I hate the idea of the grand super supreme leaders of their respective factions reduced to bench-warmers because they can't pull their own weight in points.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 15, 2021 23:10:54 GMT -5
Looks like Demon Princes and Lords will be 0-1 per detactment. Pox walker and Cultist are 0-1 for each unit of Core infantry: Plague marines, terminators, possessed etc. will each allow you to bring 1 unit pox AND 1 unit Cultist. So 315 pts of marines will let you bring 300 pts of poxwalkers at 60 bodies. still pretty horde-y but definately restricted. www.youtube.com/watch?v=L11mHBOj-nU |
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Post by Typhus on Jan 16, 2021 15:32:59 GMT -5
Cultists lost ObSec, Poxwalkers can't take actions (except the Death Guard-specific action), and both are restricted to 1 unit per 1 other CORE unit.
I'm into it. It's not the most elegant solution, but if this is what it takes to get Cultists and Poxwalkers cheap enough to be worth taking, I'm totally on board.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 16, 2021 16:52:36 GMT -5
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 17, 2021 8:54:55 GMT -5
They are looking really solid, especially in the current meta where people have loaded up on D2 weapons like Heavy Bolters and Power Fists.
I'm a huge fan of the restrictions on bringing Cultists and Poxwalkers being limited by the number of Plague Marine units, you hardly saw any Plague Marines in death guard armies aside from the one unit being brought to use the blight grenade stratagem.
Interestingly, the Flail losing it's ability to spill over wounds would indicate to me they have decided not to bring that mechanic into 40k from AOS.
Death Guard certainly look strong, I have yet to watch the stream from TTT last night where the played Harlequins vs Death Guard in a rematch from the TTT Stream Tournament, but given they set the matchup that's certainly an indicator of their opinion on the strength of the new book
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 18, 2021 8:42:18 GMT -5
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Post by voodoo on Jan 18, 2021 9:11:22 GMT -5
I feel FAQ'ing away his Revoltingly resilient for a different WL trait will be almost necessary. Otherwise, he'll be able to tank most anything, with the exception of the Nightbringer.
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 18, 2021 9:18:32 GMT -5
Ya did some math on what you would need go bring down motarian in one turn.
And if you had three six man eradicator squads with heavy meltas of the iron hands (so can move and fire their heavy weapons and reroll ones to hit) and they would on average just be able to kill him with only one wound extra. And that's 900 points of crazy fire power.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 18, 2021 9:39:01 GMT -5
They MIGHT be able to kill him... however that is a "all the stars align" kind of play (even requiring 900 points to do it!). You have to be able to bring them all in from reserve (as the death guard player just kills them first if they're on the board - or in response strategically reserves morty if he wants a turn or two to kill them). Then you have to be able to pop in with the ability to get all three units into optimal firing range (not happening if the death guard player is good ie: does any screening whatsoever). Plus that aura of no rerolls really hurts too!
I'm not saying he's unkillable... but dealing with him requires WAY more firepower than is reasonable. And your example is 900 points of the most broken anti-tank unit in the space marine arsenal.
What if you play xenos? or really anything non-eradictor-spam space marines?
Nightbringer I realize is a necron "maybe" answer... but he's got to get there (death guard are one of the armies that can reasonably do 3 wounds a phase to him) and Morty could conceivably kill him in a turn between shooting, psychic and melee himself (if his minions decide to just stand by watching and clapping for their boss).
I honestly cannot think of a stronger codex option in the entire game right now.
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Post by lightcavalier on Jan 18, 2021 9:47:27 GMT -5
Ya did some math on what you would need go bring down motarian in one turn. And if you had three six man eradicator squads with heavy meltas of the iron hands (so can move and fire their heavy weapons and reroll ones to hit) and they would on average just be able to kill him with only one wound extra. And that's 900 points of crazy fire power. As a note, this plan also only works on turn 1 (unless you do something to roll back to Devestator Doctrine for your whole army) |
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Post by voodoo on Jan 18, 2021 10:26:38 GMT -5
Yeah, as a Death Guard player, it's hard not to look at Morty and think "MUST INCLUDE!!!", but I feel like he's suffering the samee symptom that the Nightbringer has. He's SO good that every DG player wants to bring him, but then you're "that guy" that's just bringing the most broken codex option and counting on him to win you games as your opponent struggles to handle that one model.
The only other option is having enough MSU that you can feed Morty a cavalcade of crappy units, hoping to kill enough of the remainder of the army that you can eke out a win on primary, or carefully chosen secondaries as Morty slowly walks through your army.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 18, 2021 12:27:47 GMT -5
I honestly hope that he and Magnus both become "auto-take" units again. I hate the idea of the grand super supreme leaders of their respective factions reduced to bench-warmers because they can't pull their own weight in points. Yeah, as a Death Guard player, it's hard not to look at Morty and think "MUST INCLUDE!!!", but I feel like he's suffering the samee symptom that the Nightbringer has. He's SO good that every DG player wants to bring him, but then you're "that guy" that's just bringing the most broken codex option and counting on him to win you games as your opponent struggles to handle that one model. I hate to be the guy who says this, but be careful what you wish for. You just might get it. Back to the subject at hand, I'm usually on the wrong side of arguments, but Morty doesn't look unassailable to me. Miasma isn't always going to go off, and won't be up if you don't go first. Null Zone exists, and can straight take away his Invul. He can also only be in one place a time, and if he doesn't straight kill everything near by, he doesn't have Obsec. I'm not trying to say Morty is bad. He's Excellent. He's top-tier competitive excellent. But he's not invincible. |
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