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Post by voodoo on Jan 18, 2021 12:34:48 GMT -5
Sigh...wished a bit too hard it seems. If I play my DG, it'll be a tough time trying to sell my opponent that my list NEEDS Morty in it. He might be a Champs only kind of unit.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 18, 2021 12:45:43 GMT -5
The one upside is that if morty is the boogie man for the next couple months then you might see an anti meta rise in grey knights. With the flat 4 damage smites vs morty they do have a very real chance to counter him killing him in a turn or two.
Just need to make sure you got enough stuff to deal with some plague marines and terminators as well.
Also a side note to the affect of DG is T3 army are gonna get butchered when they go to T2 and bolters just melt face. This is going to push GSC, guard, tau and nid hordes even farther from meta.
I think it will have a huge impact on harlies since even with the shadow seers -1 to wound they are getting wounded on 3s (2s otherwise)... also harlie bikes which are a staple to meta play do dick all vs morty other than die (especially if they get caught in the half movement range)
While the -1T does hurt them, one group that might do well to counter morty will be admech. Possibility of mortals from earth of mars and I beleive there is a way to get +1S on weapons (mars?) So S9 plasma and more S8 stuff. I know the 2D sucks but wounding on 3s with good AP and lots of shots is good.
Morty will definately help shape a new 2021 meta.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 18, 2021 12:54:12 GMT -5
The one upside is that if morty is the boogie man for the next couple months then you might see an anti meta rise in grey knights. With the flat 4 damage smites vs morty they do have a very real chance to counter him killing him in a turn or two. Just need to make sure you got enough stuff to deal with some plague marines and terminators as well. Also a side note to the affect of DG is T3 army are gonna get butchered when they go to T2 and bolters just melt face. This is going to push GSC, guard, tau and nid hordes even farther from meta. I think it will have a huge impact on harlies since even with the shadow seers -1 to wound they are getting wounded on 3s (2s otherwise)... also harlie bikes which are a staple to meta play do dick all vs morty other than die (especially if they get caught in the half movement range) Morty will definately help shape a new 2021 meta. After watching the TTT game with the Death Guard vs harlies, I 100% agree with this. Harlies just got brutally nerfed by Death Guard. Almost every aspect of the current meta-harlie list is hard-countered by DG now |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 18, 2021 13:09:08 GMT -5
Back to the subject at hand, I'm usually on the wrong side of arguments, but Morty doesn't look unassailable to me. Miasma isn't always going to go off, and won't be up if you don't go first. Null Zone exists, and can straight take away his Invul. He can also only be in one place a time, and if he doesn't straight kill everything near by, he doesn't have Obsec. I'm not trying to say Morty is bad. He's Excellent. He's top-tier competitive excellent. But he's not invincible. Alright I'll bite... how would YOU kill him? |
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Post by voodoo on Jan 18, 2021 13:20:02 GMT -5
If it's allowed,I think there's going to be some play using the plague furnace fortifications in a Droning, or the other company that gives the no re-roll aura combined with morty and the remainder of your army in a different plague company.
If not, then the furnaces giving out a 9" bubble from T1 is huge; combined with the fact they can be placed anywhere so long as they're further than 12" from your opponent's deployment zone. Park them behind cover midfield and force your opponent to remove them, or face the oncoming tide of your army that's bringing the same, or a complimentary debuff along with them.
The tactical choices that you can force your opponent into makes DG really daunting, especially since it looks like there's LOTS of different builds that will do work.
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Post by Typhus on Jan 18, 2021 13:24:40 GMT -5
If it's allowed,I think there's going to be some play using the plague furnace fortifications in a Droning, or the other company that gives the no re-roll aura combined with morty and the remainder of your army in a different plague company. If not, then the furnaces giving out a 9" bubble from T1 is huge; combined with the fact they can be placed anywhere so long as they're further than 12" from your opponent's deployment zone. Park them behind cover midfield and force your opponent to remove them, or face the oncoming tide of your army that's bringing the same, or a complimentary debuff along with them. The tactical choices that you can force your opponent into makes DG really daunting, especially since it looks like there's LOTS of different builds that will do work. You can give the Malignifier any Plague Host, but as it can't take a Warlord Trait it has little capacity to spread any Contagion aside from the basic -1 Toughness. |
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 18, 2021 13:27:02 GMT -5
If it's allowed,I think there's going to be some play using the plague furnace fortifications in a Droning, or the other company that gives the no re-roll aura combined with morty and the remainder of your army in a different plague company. If not, then the furnaces giving out a 9" bubble from T1 is huge; combined with the fact they can be placed anywhere so long as they're further than 12" from your opponent's deployment zone. Park them behind cover midfield and force your opponent to remove them, or face the oncoming tide of your army that's bringing the same, or a complimentary debuff along with them. The tactical choices that you can force your opponent into makes DG really daunting, especially since it looks like there's LOTS of different builds that will do work. Ya I think it's actually a useful and cool fortification. Most have been pretty lack lusters but this seems really good. Only issue is I think terrian is suppose to be more than 3" away from each other so depending on the table you might end up limiting your placement; but ya if you could get a sweet mid-field spot for it with the droning to really take away movement options. Plus it's like 75 pts for a demon engine type stat line so good value if you force the enemy to shoot/ fight it for a turn. |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 18, 2021 13:39:25 GMT -5
Back to the subject at hand, I'm usually on the wrong side of arguments, but Morty doesn't look unassailable to me. Miasma isn't always going to go off, and won't be up if you don't go first. Null Zone exists, and can straight take away his Invul. He can also only be in one place a time, and if he doesn't straight kill everything near by, he doesn't have Obsec. I'm not trying to say Morty is bad. He's Excellent. He's top-tier competitive excellent. But he's not invincible. Alright I'll bite... how would YOU kill him? Hahaha. I didn't say I'd be able to KILL him lol. I said he's not invincible! Two turns is honestly the first reality that hits home. You are going to have to weaken him first with either smites or shooting that can put some D3+3 or D6 wounds into him and hopefully knock him down to ~12 wounds ish, as that significantly decreases the concentration of firepower needed to down him to a reasonably achievable level. Null Zone from Marines is honestly the Morty Killer. Turning off his Invul on the turn you go for the kill massively increases the damage put through as the usual anti-tank guns will be able to force wounds onto his 5+++, and that should put him well within the damage output averages of mainstay anti-tank choices. If you can separate him from screens, some of the more powerful Psyker units should be able to do a number on him, since Mortal Wounds bypass most of his damage reduction and only allow his 5+++. So it's clearly the best choice to weaken him down to a level where regular anti-tank weapons are going to be able to push wounds into him. I feel that was a purposeful design choice by GW. If people try the old "Slingshot Morty" into the heart of the opposing army via Warptime, I feel most armies should be able to put him down. If you keep him with the rest of your DG army as a cohesive force, he's going to be MUCH more difficult to deal with. |
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Post by voodoo on Jan 18, 2021 13:42:35 GMT -5
If it was me playing Thousand Sons:
1. Death Hex - 18" targeted invul removal
2. Doombolt - 24" d3 mortals plus halves movement AND can't advance
3. Mortal spam via smite & other targeted spells
4. Prescience a Helbrute to chunk more wounds off of Morty
Then try shooting him to death with lascannons if the above doesn't finish the job by hopefully moving some helbrutes and popping the strat to double fire at morty with twin lascannons and missile launchers.
Mind you, that above is leveraging the psychic might of my whole army to slow/stop Morty, leaving the remainder of the army largely untouched T1; which is an awful tactical choice in any game.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jan 18, 2021 13:54:47 GMT -5
Null zone is much harder to justify in marine lists now as it also disables friendly invuls. The rework of Psychic Fortress coupled with the fact that psychic powers now need to be included during army creation, not when you know what you will be facing, means we will be seeing far less null zone on the table.
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Post by Typhus on Jan 18, 2021 13:59:59 GMT -5
Back to the subject at hand, I'm usually on the wrong side of arguments, but Morty doesn't look unassailable to me. Miasma isn't always going to go off, and won't be up if you don't go first. Null Zone exists, and can straight take away his Invul. He can also only be in one place a time, and if he doesn't straight kill everything near by, he doesn't have Obsec. I'm not trying to say Morty is bad. He's Excellent. He's top-tier competitive excellent. But he's not invincible. Alright I'll bite... how would YOU kill him? Grey Knights, rather trivially. Takes about 6 Smites. Dare I add shooting or assault to the equation? Jinx + Doom with Expert Crafters vehicle spam. Null Zone + either Seal of Oath Ultramarines, Salamanders, or Deathwing Knights. Death Hex + a combination of CSM/Thousand Sons Dreadnoughts/Termites, Chaos Knights, and Magnus. Chaos Knights Rampager with Khornate Target. He certainly hard-counters Harlequins, but high-durability Monsters have always been their weakness. One of the reasons Daemons are so prevalent at the moment is that they have good matchups against both Harlequins and Space Marines. I think it's also fair to point out that Mortarion lost a lot of killing power with the new Codex. While he's extremely durable now, you lose half your special rules if you choose to soup in the ability to Warptime, the Lantern lost 6" of range, he lost his Host of Plagues rule, and neither Blades of Putrefaction or Death to the False Emperor made it into the new book. |
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 18, 2021 14:00:58 GMT -5
Null zone is much harder to justify in marine lists now as it also disables friendly invuls. The rework of Psychic Fortress coupled with the fact that psychic powers now need to be included during army creation, not when you know what you will be facing, means we will be seeing far less null zone on the table. Is null zone not an aura? Doesn't morty Shut it down if he gets within 3" |
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Post by voodoo on Jan 18, 2021 14:06:57 GMT -5
Null zone is much harder to justify in marine lists now as it also disables friendly invuls. The rework of Psychic Fortress coupled with the fact that psychic powers now need to be included during army creation, not when you know what you will be facing, means we will be seeing far less null zone on the table. Is null zone not an aura? Doesn't morty Shut it down if he gets within 3" No, it's a spell. Much like Death Hex, but not targetable I don't believe. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 18, 2021 14:16:14 GMT -5
null zone is super short range, and Morty likely would have the droning (so 1/2 movement aura).
Grey knights do NOT trivially kill Morty. I mean sure if you run him out in front of your whole army so that he's the closest model for everyone's smite it happens, but let's assume the death guard player knows how to play 40k.
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Post by Typhus on Jan 18, 2021 14:32:33 GMT -5
Null zone is much harder to justify in marine lists now as it also disables friendly invuls. The rework of Psychic Fortress coupled with the fact that psychic powers now need to be included during army creation, not when you know what you will be facing, means we will be seeing far less null zone on the table. Is null zone not an aura? Doesn't morty Shut it down if he gets within 3" Null Zone is indeed a Blessing (Aura) but Living Plague explicitly doesn't shut down psychic power Auras. |
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