Kasrkin Clubs

[Jack Shrapnel]

Alright, so let's have a discussion about how to interpret this unit for clubs. If I can have the actual guard players chime in too that would be fantastic as I want to look at a fair interpretation for everyone involved. 

I'm not a huge "house rule" guy for my tournaments, as frankly I don't have the game design cred to see all the potential interactions that would be required to just say "this is the way to do it". I'm also NOT a guard player. So I don't feel qualified to make this interpretation by myself. I wouldn't even bring this up other than the fact that other tournaments/clubs have made rulings on this unit due to an unfortunate set of combinations and GW's always stellar wording. 

So the question is - how should we rule karskins?

Should they have unlimited mortal wound production (ie: the RAW interpretation) across multiple target units?

Should they be limited to a max of six mortals caused by the unit themselves (ie: assuming they work like every other unit with capped mortal wound output) ? 

Should there be some other interaction that is MORE important to the equation that I don't know about? 

Let's have a discussion and come to some common sense way to reach a consensus, as it doesn't appear any FAQ is inbound for the codex this week (although GW has surprised us before)

[harryf]

For the Ottawa contingent of the Ontario league they are doing 6 MWs max per ATTACKING unit rather than per DEFENDING unit.

The alternative would be to give them the Votann treatment and have autohits not produce auto 6s to wound, but this will also nerf sniper weapons like marksman rifles and Marbo's pistol, for what difference that makes.

Speaking as someone who's been playing the dex for a bit they should not stay as is. 19 MWs is too much.

There is also the potential of a roundabout solution where only unmodified 6s count as 6s to wound so 5s from ingrained precision don't count as 6s to wound, but that's probably just pointlessly complicated.

My vote would be for the cap to be on the shooting unit

[ohgodsnakes]

6 max sounds good for now.

[harryf]

(Am I literally the only Guard player that's bringing them, maybe I should just leave them at home and call it a day XD)

[kaelon]

I agree with that, 6mw max and auto wounds don't counts as 6's

[Typhus]

I'd also be in for both, I don't think Guard needs the help.

[ohgodsnakes]

I think one or the other would be enough. My suggestion would be changing the stratagem to 6mw max as it is the smallest wording change that interacts with the least amount of stuff.

[mrmanstory]

Feb 14, 2023 18:23:01 GMT -5 ohgodsnakes said:

I think one or the other would be enough. My suggestion would be changing the stratagem to 6mw max as it is the smallest wording change that interacts with the least amount of stuff.

I agree with this take. While they're very good I feel like we should be aiming to have as little impact by house ruling something as possible.

[ohgodsnakes]

Just did some more research. It appears that guard are not the big boogeyman that people thought they would be in the larger tournament meta. That would be certain flavours of space marines, though even they have really only been brought up to match the other big hitters out there. Guard haven't swept, or even placed well in the last couple GT's. Though this isn't too much data, it's not a whole new range, so it's not like people had to buy and build brand new models. Many had extensive collections already. There are a ton of guard players crawling out of the woodwork now that their codex isn't dog water.

This whole thing may turn into a tau railgun debacle. Big hooplah at first and then crickets as people realized that it is a one trick pony that relies on keeping guardsman alive.

I am still in favour of capping at 6mw total until gw faqs. If they do not, it seems intentional.

[harryf]

Its honestly a matter of rule bloat more than anything else

Its not the strategems themselves, as much as its Leontus reroll + FRFSRF + teleport key + born soldiers + ingrained precisions + overcharged las cells that makes it absurd

(add to that the ability to ignore cover with veteran guerilla and it gets even more out of hand)

[Jack Shrapnel]

I'd really like to do as small of a change as possible.

I'm not trying to just trash the unit or anything... it should still be able to function in it's intended role.

[ohgodsnakes]

Limiting it to 6mw literally cuts their damage potential by 2/3, taking them down from 18mw on average (with every conceivable buff)

It also allows the people who aren't bringing the wombo combo to still use their dope new (or metal) kasrkin models without having most of their teeth pulled.

[sean]

Not playing guard at the tournament. But I think capping the stratgem at 6 total mortal wounds is an elegant and simple solution.

[Jack Shrapnel]

Feb 14, 2023 19:32:00 GMT -5 ohgodsnakes said:

Limiting it to 6mw literally cuts their damage potential by 2/3, taking them down from 18mw on average (with every conceivable buff)

It also allows the people who aren't bringing the wombo combo to still use their dope new (or metal) kasrkin models without having most of their teeth pulled.

this seems reasonable to me

[raceygaming]

Well playing orks and knowing it will kick me in the end. I do think as it stands the interaction should stay as is until an official FAQ. If some one can set up a prefect strike and get the 18 mortals and roll them, so be it.

Now I know that the competitive Meta isn't the perfect guide but guard are not the steamroller I thought they would be winning every tournament by a large margin. I think with some good terrain on the table you can try to play around it.

I will go with what the majority wants or the T.Os ruling.