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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 26, 2020 10:14:21 GMT -5
Yeah that's kinda the general problem with the wraithknight for a while now. He's so many points he has to be shooting and punching every turn to have a chance at carrying his weight. And it's obviously a giant fire magnet.
You either take the good guns and live with the fact he's gonna die by turn 2-3 at most due to the lack of an invul, take the sword n board and have exactly a zero percent chance of being anything other than a distraction carnifex, or take the suncannon and shield and have to rely on its middle of the road profile.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 26, 2020 15:01:37 GMT -5
oh well I think I might have to accept he just dies within a turn or two... if I do this, it's more for a fun painting project anyways, as I've talked about a wraith army for several years now...
... not that I don't have an absolute TON of models to paint already... and I could you know, FINISH my current projects first... but lol why be rational now?
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 8, 2020 9:22:25 GMT -5
Did some more thinking about the wraith list... I'm one wraithseer (probably will convert) away from being able to field this due to buying a couple of those start collecting boxes (cheaper than buying a box of blades and a wraithlord and came with a war walker and farseer / cool spiritseer)
okay, so this version LOSES me 3 CP... but gives me three units of wraithblades (all shield/axe) to objective camp, adds a couple walkers to throw some missile launcher shots around to diversify my heavy weapons so they aren't all on one platform.
other option at this point is to make the sword and board wraithknight which would give me enough points to upgrade to a few more heavy weapons at the expense of those four heavy wraithcannon shots - but I'm not sure if that's worth it or not... luckily I magnetized the big guy so the option still exists.
here's what I came up with:
++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [21 PL, -3CP, 415pts] ++
Craftworld Attribute *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masters of Concealment
Wraithknight [21 PL, 415pts]: Two Heavy Wraithcannons
++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [49 PL, 9CP, 925pts] ++
Craftworld Attribute *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masters of Concealment
Wraithseer [8 PL, 155pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, D-cannon, Warlord The Phoenix Gem
War Walkers [4 PL, 70pts] War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon War Walkers [4 PL, 70pts] War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon Wraithlord [7 PL, 130pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Ghostglaive, Shuriken Catapult, Shuriken Catapult Wraithlord [7 PL, 130pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Ghostglaive, Shuriken Catapult, Shuriken Catapult Wraithlord [7 PL, 130pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Ghostglaive, Shuriken Catapult, Shuriken Catapult
Hemlock Wraithfighter [12 PL, 240pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Spirit Stones
++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [33 PL, -3CP, 660pts] ++
Craftworld Attribute *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masters of Concealment
Spiritseer [3 PL, 60pts]: 0. Smite, 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol
Wraithblades [10 PL, 200pts]: Ghostaxe and Forceshield, 5x Wraithblade Wraithblades [10 PL, 200pts]: Ghostaxe and Forceshield, 5x Wraithblade Wraithblades [10 PL, 200pts]: Ghostaxe and Forceshield, 5x Wraithblade
++ Total: [103 PL, 3CP, 2,000pts] ++
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only 3 CP... yeah I know... but other than tears of asha and fire and fade, I'm not going to be using a ton of strats I don't think.... I mean I COULD... but what can you do
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Post by voodoo on Oct 8, 2020 10:26:28 GMT -5
A few thoughts. I don't like that it's not ALL ghosts now, but... with some cool conversions, they could still all look like ghosts, so there's that. I do like that it's got more of what the previous list was struggling with, objective control and bodies to spread out the pain.
The previous list was almost too easy in terms of target priority; this one forces a few choices and has some more shooting to get out there and drop some key targets before the backlash. I like it!
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 8, 2020 12:00:56 GMT -5
well it's just one elf that can't not be an elf... I can at least try and close off the canopy on the walkers so don't look like elves... maybe... who knows...
thanks for the feedback....
I don't think this will ever be a competitive theme for an army, but it's more of a painting project that's cool
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Post by Typhus on Oct 8, 2020 15:39:26 GMT -5
Just remember that units in Super-Heavy Auxilliaries don't benefit from your Craftworld Attribute.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 8, 2020 16:13:08 GMT -5
Just remember that units in Super-Heavy Auxilliaries don't benefit from your Craftworld Attribute. yep, it's stupid but that's the rule apparently. Makes no sense because you literally have to give them a craftworld... they just don't benefit.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Oct 8, 2020 17:27:19 GMT -5
If you find yourself struggling on CP you could optimize slightly by folding the vanguard into the spearhead and folding the three 5 man units into two 7 man units and using the 30 spare points to upgrade the wraithlords to have dual flamers. It really helps them not get bogged down by tarpits.
On the other hand it does expose the wraithguard a bit more to blasts being above 5 models but your buffs also go a bit further with larger squads
You could also just go one 10 man and one 5 man if you don't want to pull one wraith and just want the 3CP back
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 8, 2020 18:01:15 GMT -5
the original list had two units of wraiths and I could easily go back into that again and just roll everything into the spearhead, but keep everything else the same. that bit of flexibility is probably not worth 3 CP.
flamers aren't worth the 30 points though, I'd rather have the other wraithguard.
I'll give it a test run and see how it goes, given I'm one model away from owning it all at this point.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 11, 2020 7:42:13 GMT -5
So finally was able to test out my 9th edition nurgle daemons list yesterday (as I finally bought a GUO and assembled it) and I gotta say I wasn't impressed.
The soul grinder was pretty garbage, the support characters for the plaguebearers didn't do squat (because the plaguebearers were just backfield objective holders and could be literally ignored). Didn't have enough infantry for actions, and just a lot of points wrapped up in stuff that wasn't effective. Also one big unit of beasts I think would be a lot better than two smaller units that just kinda get in each other's way. (and last longer to be raised by the bell)
so here's what I came up with as a switch:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Daemons) [74 PL, 10CP, 1,564pts] ++
+ Stratagems +Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic) [-1CP]
+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Chaos [8 PL, 160pts]: Hellforged sword Nurgle's Rot
Great Unclean One [14 PL, -1CP, 270pts]: Acidic Ichor, Bileblade, Doomsday bell, Fleshy Abundance, Miasma of Pestilence, The Endless Gift, Warlord Exalted Great Unclean One: 2. Revoltingly Resilient
Horticulus Slimux [8 PL, 160pts]
+ Troops +
Nurglings [4 PL, 72pts] 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth
Nurglings [4 PL, 72pts] 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth
30 Plaguebearers [12 PL, 285pts]: Daemonic Icon, Plagueridden
+ Elites +
8 Beasts of Nurgle [16 PL, 280pts] 8x Putrid appendages
+ Fast Attack +
6 Plague Drones [8 PL, 265pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos,
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Daemons) [22 PL, -3CP, 432pts] ++
+ HQ +
Great Unclean One [14 PL, -1CP, 270pts]: Bilesword, Effluvior, Nurgle's Rot, Plague flail, Shrivelling Pox . Exalted Great Unclean One: 4. Living Plagues
+ Troops +
Nurglings [4 PL, 72pts] 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth
10 Plaguebearers [4 PL, 90pts]: Plagueridden
++ Total: [96 PL, 7CP, 1,996pts] ++
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So essentially was able to add a unit of plaguebearers to do some actions, help grab objectives, top off the existing unit to a full 30, and add a combat oriented great unclean one. This one, instead of raising models with the bell, gets an extra attack when he hits with an attack that is double the opponent's toughness (he has S8 with the sword and has a spell that makes a unit -1 toughness). He also has the exalted relic where he has a six shot, AP-3 S8 D2 flail that has damage spill over to other models, which is pretty cool, especially when facing non 2 wound models (they exist still right?)
so I think it ups the utility and threat level of the list a bit.
now I just have to buy another GUO...sigh
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 11, 2020 10:42:05 GMT -5
well... either I bought in way too hard on necrons and made a terrible mistake... or I get to build multiple different lists and get to play with all the cool toys the codex has to offer... since the money is already spent I'll go with option 2.
Here's my first thoughts at a test list. Man stuff is expensive in this book. But here's what I have for my first thoughts.
Dynasty - Nihlakh ( everything has objective secured. In deployment zone ignore AP-1)
Supreme Command - The Silent King (he's a dynastic agent so can be taken in any dynasty)
Battalion
Overlord with Tachyon arrow - Veil of darkness Technomancer with control node (+1 to hit for canoptek) and Phylacterine hive - 1/game can res destroyers
20 gauss warriors 20 gauss warriors 10 reaper warriors
6 scarabs 6 scarabs 6 scarabs
Doomstalker Doomstalker 2 Lokhust heavy destroyers
2,000 points on the nose... 15 CP cuz the silent king is awesome
premise: have a firebase that is pretty deadly, and the cryptek gets to bring back one of the heavy destroyers once one is lost (ie: first turn). Sure they don't have a LOT of shots, but between these three units and the tachyon arrow (and strat to auto wound for 1 CP once/turn) there's probably enough to kill a problematic tank / turn.
everything else is about controlling the objectives. Scarabs are surprisingly durable and fast, and with obsec can pick up some points. The 20 man blobs of warriors just aren't going anywhere unless alot of firepower is coming their way. The reapers are just there to provide screen to the heavy shots, and take advantage of the doomstalkers "look at me I'm tau" free overwatching rule.
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Post by Khalai on Oct 12, 2020 5:46:00 GMT -5
I really like the list, seems similar to something I was thinking of, but with c'tan and a flyer instead of Silent King.
The only thing is I'd consider flipping one of the 20 warrior units to reapers if you're planning on moving them upfield. That +1str/ap is just too deadly to give up if you will end up in rapid fire range by T2.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 12, 2020 7:12:20 GMT -5
oh, there's a close combat c'tan list coming too... really can't wait for that void dragon miniature!
and yeah I have half my warriors built as reapers... so whoops... one is reapers (or maybe half half on both squads)
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 17, 2020 13:38:20 GMT -5
tried the silent king list today... that guy is bonkers good...
The doomstalkers also cool.. the heavy destroyers are okay... the tachyon arrow is still bad...lol
crypteks may be more useful than I thought
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Post by trantos01 on Oct 18, 2020 17:11:26 GMT -5
Hmm considering that the Silent King can buff two different units and gives rerolls to hit when shooting, why not take a Lord instead? He has the Noble keyword, gives wound rerolls for a unit (SK only does it for melee) and is 30 points cheaper than a Overlord+Arrow
That's two more warrior or scarab models to add ot the list.
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